Windows Explorer window is running each time I log in

[binghamjc]

I searched for an answer to this in the forum but too many matches came back that had nothing to do with the question that I asked, so if this has been answered already please just point me to the answer.
I have a Dell GX260 running Windows XP SP3
This is a refurbished computer that I purchased to replace a computer that died. So I am installing software on it that was on the old computer. I removed the optical drives from the old computer installed them on the Dell.
I installed some software from for the HP optical drive which hung at the end of the installation during the restart process. Now every time I log in to any account on the computer a Windows Explorer window is open in the C:\Program Files\HP directory. Which makes me suspect that it is something that did not get cleaned up when the installation hung.
I would really like to know what to do to clean this up so that Windows Explorer will no longer start up each time I log on.

Thanks in advance
Jay

[Allan]

Go to the following registry locations, look for an incomplete entry on the right side, and delete it:

HKCU / Software / Microsoft / Windows / Current Version / Run

HKLM / Software / Microsoft / Windows / Current Version / Run

[blackrainbow]

Windows Explorer is a file manager application that is included with releases of the Microsoft Windows operating system from Windows 95 onwards. It provides a graphical user interface for accessing the file systems. It is also the component of the operating system that presents many user interface items on the monitor such as the taskbar and desktop. Controlling the computer is possible without Windows Explorer running (for example, the File | Run command in Task Manager on NT-derived versions of Windows will function without it, as will commands typed in a command prompt window). It is sometimes referred to as the Windows Shell, explorer.exe, or simply “Explorer”.

[BC_Programmer]

Windows Explorer is a file manager application that is included with releases of the Microsoft Windows operating system from Windows 95 onwards. It provides a graphical user interface for accessing the file systems. It is also the component of the operating system that presents many user interface items on the monitor such as the taskbar and desktop. Controlling the computer is possible without Windows Explorer running (for example, the File | Run command in Task Manager on NT-derived versions of Windows will function without it, as will commands typed in a command prompt window). It is sometimes referred to as the Windows Shell, explorer.exe, or simply “Explorer”.

And this helps how?

it doesn't. Please read the post before responding instead of just the title.

[binghamjc]

Allan,

Go to the following registry locations, look for an incomplete entry on the right side, and delete it:

HKCU / Software / Microsoft / Windows / Current Version / Run

HKLM / Software / Microsoft / Windows / Current Version / Run

Thanks for your reply, unfortunately I am not sure I completely understand what you mean by an incomplete entry. 

I found the following entries at HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run:
"PowerPanel Personal Edition User Interaction"="\"C:\\Program Files\\CyberPower PowerPanel Personal Edition\\pppeuser.exe\""
"LDM"="C:\\Program Files\\Logitech\\Desktop Messenger\\8876480\\Program\\LogitechDesktopMessenger.exe"
"ctfmon.exe"="C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\ctfmon.exe"
They all look complete to me.

I found the following entries at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run:
"IgfxTray"="C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\igfxtray.exe"
"HotKeysCmds"="C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\hkcmd.exe"
"PDVDDXSrv"="\"C:\\Program Files\\CyberLink\\PowerDVD DX\\PDVDDXSrv.exe\""
"hpqSRMon"=""
"avgnt"="\"C:\\Program Files\\Avira\\AntiVir Desktop\\avgnt.exe\" /min"
"PD0620 STISvc"="RunDLL32.exe P0620Pin.dll,RunDLL32EP 513"
"EvtMgr6"="C:\\Program Files\\Logitech\\SetPointP\\SetPoint.exe /launchGaming"
"Adobe Reader Speed Launcher"="\"C:\\Program Files\\Adobe\\Reader 9.0\\Reader\\Reader_sl.exe\""
"Adobe ARM"="\"C:\\Program Files\\Common Files\\Adobe\\ARM\\1.0\\AdobeARM.exe\""
"DVDTray"="C:\\Program Files\\HP DVD\\Umbrella\\DVDTray.exe"
"DVDBitSet"="C:\\Program Files\\HP DVD\\Umbrella\\DVDBitSet.exe /NOUI"
"QuickTime Task"="\"C:\\Program Files\\QuickTime\\qttask.exe\" -atboottime"
"SunJavaUpdateSched"="\"C:\\Program Files\\Java\\jre6\\bin\\jusched.exe\""
"WinPatrol"="C:\\Program Files\\BillP Studios\\WinPatrol\\winpatrol.exe -expressboot"
The only one that looks incomplete to me is the hpqSRMon entry, which has nothing in the data portion. Is that what you mean by incomplete?
I assumed that it was and deleted the entry.
Unfortunately that did not seem to have any effect, when I logged in as another user the Windows Explorer window still came up displaying the C:\Program Files\HP directory.

In my profile I say that I am "experienced" because I worked in the software development industry for 30 years, but most of my experience is with programing for operating systems other than windows. So while I have a great deal of experience most of it is not with making Windows do what I want it to do. That being said I believe that fundamentally Windows is not any different than any other operating system, to make it do something it must be told to do it and it must be told where to do it. So in this case I believe that I should be looking for someplace that is telling Windows Explorer to run and open the C:\Program Files\HP directory each time a user logs in. That makes the HKLM entries in the registry a logical place  to look since all users are affected. However, I do not see anything in the SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run list that indicates that Windows Explorer is being started from that location in the registry. While it may be possible that starting Windows Explorer is a default action when Windows cant figure out what it is supposed to do, it seems to me that the default directory to open would not be C:\Program Files\HP, so that information needs to be stored somewhere, most likely in the registry.

[jason2074]

Check this site for Win-xp: Previous issue posted was solved and website was referred courtesy of Mastermind Broni.
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp.htm
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_conflicts.htm
You might find the article for your problem.

[Allan]

Yes, "hpqSRMon"="" is the entry. Delete it in each user profile and reboot. Let's see what happens

[Broni]

Windows Explorer window is running each time I log in

Can you explain more?
Windows Explorer window opens, when your computer boots up, or...?

[Allan]

Now every time I log in to any account on the computer a Windows Explorer window is open in the C:\Program Files\HP directory.

Broni - this issue is usually due to an incomplete entry in one of the RUN keys

[Broni]

I thought, I've seen that issue on HP computers and...
Take a look here: http://forums13.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447627+1280250246461+28353475&threadId=841671
It seems to have some connection to HP updater running at the startup.

[Allan]

Hmmm. Okay, thanks for that. Still, I don't see any such task in his startup items (unless it's in the startup folder, and I think that would be very unlikely). I'm still guessing it's that incomplete startup entry.

[Broni]

Startups can be located in more registry locations, than just those two...

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServicesOnce
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServicesOnce
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnceEx
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer\Run
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer\Run
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Userinit
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows\load
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Notify
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ShellServiceObjectDelayLoad
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\SharedTaskScheduler

Also, explorer.exe doesn't have to be a startup per se. It may be simply triggered by some other startup.

[Allan]

I understand. But if it happens every time that rules out runonce. And we both know the keys I listed are the most likely. But nice list

[BC_Programmer]

I understand. But if it happens every time that rules out runonce. And we both know the keys I listed are the most likely.

One problem: they listed the contents of the "most likely" locations, and aside from the empty value there weren't any "incomplete" keys, and deleting the one "incomplete" key (which was empty and therefore wasn't going to be responsible for starting windows explorer in a specific folder) didn't resolve the problem.

HP(heck, most OEMs) like to put startups not just in the RUN key but also in win.ini, why? I don't know.

for example, the lack of "any such task" being in either of the RUN keys is hardly evidence against Broni's theory, considering another common location for it to be located is in win.ini in a:

Code: [Select]

run=hpfsched

My point is, yes. the run key is the most likely. but clearly nothing there is (directly) causing the problem, so either it's elsewhere, or, as Broni mentioned, one of the other applications listed there may very well be starting Explorer.

I'd remove All the HP startups.

[JJ 3000]

Have you checked add/remove programs to see if the software is listed there?

Tried a system restore yet?

[Allan]

One problem: they listed the contents of the "most likely" locations, and aside from the empty value there weren't any "incomplete" keys, and deleting the one "incomplete" key (which was empty and therefore wasn't going to be responsible for starting windows explorer in a specific folder) didn't resolve the problem.

We don't know that. He said he deleted the value and then logged on as another user. He needed to reboot first. And unless I'm missing something, that was the only HP entry.

[BC_Programmer]

We don't know that.

Yes we do. a empty Run key doesn't do anything. that was all they deleted, an empty run key, therefore, what they deleted didn't resolve the problem, because there was no way that empty valued key was causing the issue. Additionally, since the only key they deleted was within the Local Machine hive, it's logical to conclude that the issue still persists in all accounts if it is still present in the one they tried.

He needed to reboot first.

the Run registry keys and any run= and load= lines in win.ini are parsed and executed when you log on. you don't need to reboot to apply changes. logging off and back into any account will cause the values in the Run key within the Local Machine Hive to take effect.

And unless I'm missing something, that was the only HP entry.

"HotKeysCmds"="C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\hkcmd.exe"
"DVDTray"="C:\Program Files\\HP DVD\\Umbrella\\DVDTray.exe"
"DVDBitSet"="C:\\Program Files\\HP DVD\\Umbrella\\DVDBitSet.exe /NOUI"

[Allan]

Ok

Quote
"HotKeysCmds"="C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\hkcmd.exe"
"DVDTray"="C:\Program Files\\HP DVD\\Umbrella\\DVDTray.exe"
"DVDBitSet"="C:\\Program Files\\HP DVD\\Umbrella\\DVDBitSet.exe /NOUI"

Oops 

[Broni]

We may never know, since OP is MiA...

[Allan]

Can't imagine why 

[binghamjc]

Wow, a lot of responses in the time I have been gone getting on with my life. I appreciate your efforts.

To jason2074, reply #5 - Interesting information contained there and it may be useful. But it will require some effort to dig the kernels out, if nothing else works I will read there more thoroughly and try some of the suggestions.

To Allan, reply #6 - As I said before I deleted it, and it mad no difference, but I did not reboot, so this time I rebooted. same result the explorer window still pops up.

On a side note, in looking for all entries containing the keyword hpqSRMon in the registry I see that this keyword is associated with the HP digital image monitor.

To Broni, reply #9 - This looks interesting, but it is five years old, you would think that HP would have fixed it by now. I looked for hpwuschd2.exe in the registry and do not find it in any of the run keys as described in this article.

To Allan, reply #10 - It is not in the start-up folder. However, HP digital image monitor is.

To Broni, reply #11 - Nice list. See answer to reply #9.

To BC_Programmer, reply #13 - I did not see anything HP related in the win.ini. I looked through some of the other 318 ini files on the system and did not find any thing that stood out blatantly. Some of the HP ini file are full of variables which I could not find defined anywhere so it makes it hard to say that the culprit is not in one of them.

To JJ 3000, reply #14 - I am not exactly sure what software you are referring to when you suggest checking the add/remove programs list. But, yes there are several HP programs in that list. I don't think that I want to remove any of them. As for trying a system restore, that seems a little drastic because there are several other pieces of software that I would have to reinstall if I did that. I have two HP devices and one Compaq device attached to this system, but have only installed software for the printer and the DVD R/W drive. I suspect that it is related to the install for the DVD, since I installed the printer software early on and don't recall seeing the explorer window immediately after doing that.

[Broni]

Go Start>Run (Start Search in Vista), type in:
msconfig
Click OK (hit Enter in Vista).

Click on Startup tab.
Click Disable all
IMPORTANT! In case of laptop, make sure, you do NOT disable any keyboard, or touchpad entries.

Click Services tab.
Put checkmark in Hide all Microsoft services
Click Disable all.

Click OK.
Restart computer in Normal Mode.

NOTE. If you use different firewall, than Windows firewall, turn Windows firewall on, just for this test, since your regular firewall won't be running.
If you use Windows firewall, you're fine.

Same problem?

[JJ 3000]

I installed some software from for the HP optical drive which hung at the end of the installation during the restart process. Now every time I log in to any account on the computer a Windows Explorer window is open in the C:\Program Files\HP directory. Which makes me suspect that it is something that did not get cleaned up when the installation hung.

This is what I was referring to - the program that you were trying to install right before this started. Try uninstalling that program.

As for trying a system restore, that seems a little drastic because there are several other pieces of software that I would have to reinstall

System Restore creates a snapshot of your computer's configuration at a certain time. You probably have several restore points. Check it out at: Start-->All Programs-->Accessories-->System Tools-->System Restore.
By default, every time you install new software, XP creates a restore point. So if your problem started right after you installed that program you should be able to restore to a time before the malfunction. It's much easier than having to manually edit the registry and it's usually the first thing I try when I have a buggy computer.
During the restore process your settings will be the only things that are changed. No data will be lost. Your computer will have all of the programs and settings as of the restore date.
Also, the system restore is completely reversible so you don't have to worry about screwing something up.

So, if i were you, I'd check add/remove to see if the program is listed there. If it is, I'd uninstall it. Then I would do a system restore to before the trouble install. After that, if the problem is resolved, I'd try installing that software again.

[binghamjc]

One thing that I noticed yesterday. I ran the SysInternals Process Explorer while the offending explorer window was open (Process Explorer has the ability to show the command line used to start the processes that are running). It showed only one instance of Windows Explorer which looks like the instance that starts all the other user processes. There were of course no parameters on the command line.

Reply to JJ 3000 (re: reply #22)
I appreciate the advice and I understand how system restore works. It just seems like using a 4lb sledge hammer to kill a fly. As I said there is other software that was installed since I installed the HP DVD software that I would need to reinstall once I had reverted to a pre-HP DVD save point. I will reserve this approach as a last resort.

Reply to Broni (Re: reply #21)
I did mostly as you suggested using msconfig (thanks for the info on that I was not aware of it or had forgotten what it was capable of) and the offending window did not come up when I restarted the computer, then after restoring to normal start-up it returned. However, using msconfig seems like smashing files with a hammer when a fly swatter will do. So I used another program I have installed (WinPatrol) which can selectively disable entries on the start up lists and disabled the following four programs:
PowerDVD DX – PDVDDXSRV.EXE (apparently comes installed on all Dell computers so it may not be the culprit)
PowerDVD DX – PDVDDXSRV.EXE (installs with HP Printers and cameras, so it may not be the culprit either)
PowerDVD DX – PDVDDXSRV.EXE (likely installed with the DVD software, it puts an icon in the system tray, is a prime suspect)
HP DVD Utility – DVDBITSET.EXE (installed with the DVD software, is a prime suspect as well)
With these four not running when I logged in the offending window does not display  . Now I just need to determine the responsible program  .

[binghamjc]

Correction:
I meant to say - the following four programs:
PowerDVD DX – PDVDDXSRV.EXE (apparently comes installed on all Dell computers so it may not be the culprit)
HP Digital Imaging – HPQTRA08.EXE (installs with HP Printers and cameras, so it may not be the culprit either)
HP CD/DVD Tray Icon – DVDTRAY.EXE (likely installed with the DVD software, it puts an icon in the system tray, is a prime suspect)
HP DVD Utility – DVDBITSET.EXE (installed with the DVD software, is a prime suspect as well)

I re-enabled the first two on the list logging off and back on after each enable and the offending window did not reappear. I then enabled DVDBITSET, logged off and back on, viola there it was the offending window. I then disabled DVDBITSET and enabled DVDTRAY, logged off and back on, the offending window is also displayed. So it looks like it may not actually be either of these two programs that is causing the problem, but something that they both use. What that could be is anybody's guess. It looks like I will have to reinstall that all that DVD software.

Thank you for all your help.

[binghamjc]

Broni,

Regarding your suggestion about using msconfig, if I read it correctly it seems to indicate that I should restart the computer in Normal Startup mode after disabling all of the non-Microsoft services. That is not exactly what I did. I restarted the computer in Selective Startup mode then ran msconfig again after logging in, it had reverted to Normal Startup mode.  So I disabled a couple of things and Selective Startup mode was automatically selected. If I selected Normal Startup mode the items that I had disabled were re-enabled. So it appears that any time something is disabled the system automatically goes to Selective Startup mode and selecting Normal Startup mode re-enables anything that has been disabled.

BTW, I accessed the HP site and explained what I had learned and asked them for suggestions for resolving the problem. We will see if they come back with anything useful. 

[Broni]

I then enabled DVDBITSET, logged off and back on, viola there it was the offending window. I then disabled DVDBITSET and enabled DVDTRAY

Neither of those two has to be a startup, so simply disable both and your problem is solved.

[binghamjc]

You are right, the system does not seem to be adversely affected by their absence in the startup list. And having fewer things in that list is a good thing.

[Broni]

Always

[jason2074]

Msconfig was the way out all along...

[patio]

Msconfig was the way out all along...

Wrong.
MSconfig should only be used as a diagnostic tool...
Never as to making permanent system changes...

[Broni]

Amen

[BC_Programmer]

Wrong.
MSconfig should only be used as a diagnostic tool...
Never as to making permanent system changes...

I've always believed this. But I've come to realize this is no longer true. With Windows 9x's msconfig, it would actually make itself startup with the computer and give you a prompt saying you were in "diagnostic" mode.

Now, the option buttons presented on the first tab of msconfig don't correspond to any special modes that it forces windows to run in.

In fact, they only correspond to what is checked in the other tabs.

if there are any unselected items, msconfig says you are in "selective startup" mode. It doesn't matter wether these items were moved by another program or by msconfig itself. the checkboxes beneath them reflect how "selective" it thinks your startup is.

the "Normal startup" will be checked if every single item is checked. Diagnostic startup unchecks everything.

the option buttons there are merely "shortcuts" to uncheck and check certain items.

"So" you say, "how does it allow you to check items off in the startup tab if it deletes them when you uncheck them?" well, quite simple! it makes a record of anything it disables in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Shared Tools\MSConfig.

Therefore, the only reason not to use msconfig to make permanent changes would be if you don't like a few extra bytes being used up.

Another point of note: many of the "alternatives" being suggested are not supported on many newer operating systems, specifically, for example, any 64-bit variant. Take the Startup Control Panel: it's entirely unaware of the fact that all it's accesses to the RUN keys are in fact being redirected, via registry redirection, to actually point to values in wow6432node.

Of course, this will find all the RUN keys created by 32-bit programs (who, when saving their values were also redirected to wow6432node. However, the "actual" run key will be left entirely unexamined.

Do we really want to switch people away from a tool that understands the implications of this redirection and can properly enumerate <all> the appropriate keys, or do we want to continue to make what I now believe are outdated claims about how it works based on the caveats of it's Windows 9x version?

So many people say "don't use MSConfig".

But can anybody give a good reason <why>? That's what I was trying to do- find out why we shouldn't be using it, but I couldn't find any reason at all.

[jason2074]

So, may i know what was the suggested solution to the windows start-up? Please

[Broni]

"msconfig" is perfectly safe to check, uncheck startups, however for an average person it IS a dangerous area, because there are many other options there and if not understood correctly and played with, the computer may end up as not bootable, in a loop, or stuck in safe mode.

There are countless of free programs, like Autoruns, Startupcop, QuickStartup and others, where you can play with your startups in safe manor.

[jason2074]

Thanks a lot, Patio, BC_Programmer, its a worthwhile to learn reading about suggestions, comments, opinions thru your experiences. I'm learning and I've learned a lot in this FORUM by participating and accepting mistakes and learning from it.
Thanks Mastermind Broni . I actually have a start-up tool and looking at it and comparing with the msconfig start-up tab seems relatively almost the same . Only thing i dont i know is the impact of unchecking a running service from the startup tool with the msconfig startup tab. And to be more clear about the issue of binghamjc is, does your suggestion about unchecking on startup tab cleared his problem?

[Broni]

Yes, but what I asked him to do was ONLY for testing purposes.
You can't run computer with the above settings for long, because there is no protection.
Talking about startups, any non-Microsoft startup is safe to disable, unless you really need it as a startup.
One exception - in case of laptop, don't disable any keyboard, or touchpad entries.

[jason2074]

Yes i remember clearly about not disabling keyboard on laptop as you previously posted. And the services for microsoft disabled(Startup) is what you mean by protection, right?

[Broni]

No, you don't disable any Microsoft services.
By protection, I mean your AV program and a firewall.

[jason2074]

Ok i understand. Thanks Mastermind Broni. For that I'll treat you for lunch 
Gotta go... Lunch time.

[Broni]

You're very welcome

[binghamjc]

There has been a lot of speculation in this thread about what was and was not the solution to my problem.
Here is my take on it.
Using msconfig pointed me in the right direction, but it was not the final solution, and as Broni pointed out, it was intended to be a diagnostic tool. From my point of view that is all that I used it for was a diagnostic tool. Furthermore, when I brought the system up in Selective Startup mode there were warnings to that effect, that is not something that I would like to have occur each time I log in. That would be at least as annoying if not more so than the original problem. What it did do was point out that there was something in the startup list that was the source of the problem.
The tool that I used to determine what in the startup list was the source of the problem and remove the two HP programs from the startup list was WinPatrol, there may be others that provide similar capabilities, I am not familiar with them. I have been running WinPatrol on both my systems for at least the past 5 years and am familiar with its operation and comfortable using it. Its main functionality is as a system monitor looking for changes to critical system resources and alerting me so that changes do not occur without my knowledge.
I chose to use WinPatrol to continue my trouble shooting because using it did not require that I reboot the system, only that I log off and back on to test the effects of removing various programs from the list.
In my estimation using msconfig was akin to using a 4 pound sledge hammer to do the job of a tack hammer.
So thank you all for your help in finding the solution to this annoyance.

[Broni]

You're very welcome

[patio]

BC i'll give you kudos for what you stated...
However i will prefer to stay old school on this one...
Withe services.msc being available (which should be the suggestion in these cases) and apps like Mike Lin's Startup CPL i see no reason to use msconfig to make permanent changes...
Reason being if you change anything in services.msc as opposed to msconfig  the system will still boot but provide an error massage and you can recover from that...
That is not the case when msconfig is used...
Better approach for newbies and i'm stickin to it...

[BC_Programmer]

BC i'll give you kudos for what you stated...
However i will prefer to stay old school on this one...
Withe services.msc being available (which should be the suggestion in these cases) and apps like Mike Lin's Startup CPL i see no reason to use msconfig to make permanent changes...
Reason being if you change anything in services.msc as opposed to msconfig  the system will still boot but provide an error massage and you can recover from that...
That is not the case when msconfig is used...
Better approach for newbies and i'm stickin to it...

I agree, I never use msconfig myself for anything whatsoever, and it's certainly not something users should just go through flipping checkboxes seemingly at random to fix an issue, or editing the boot configuration- it's a dangerous program for a curious person to start experimenting with, and I 100% agree, the various other tools (like autoruns, and the startup CPL (on 32-bit systems, anyway) as well as the actual OS functionality to disable/enable services (services.msc), are much much better.

What I am arguing against os more the stigma that seems to imply that it's not a preferred choice because of some unsaid detail about how it works, rather then the true reason, which is that the adventurous users are likely to get burned.

On the other hand, adventurous users are likely to get themselves into trouble regardless of the program, but at least most of them stick to the "startups" concept rather then having tabs to modify their core boot configuration.

At it's core, the real problem is that there was some decision by somebody to add these countless ways that programs can startup automatically. I mean, at least 6 or so registry keys, even more on 64-bit systems, several ini files that are long forgotten but still parsed, task scheduler, and mercy knows what else. A single startup folder would have certainly been sufficient- you want to see your startups, you just open that folder. no hassle with any tools. But no... apparently companies didn't like this. Win 3.1 had pretty much two places- the startup folder and run= and load= lines in win.ini. That was more then enough. But with win95 was released I guess their excitement over the registry overflowed into a number of new "infection vectors" (As far as I'm concerned, aside from a few necessary driver satellite DLL files (very few, I might add) anything that puts itself in there is an infection. (except malware programs, whose function necessitates being there) Nobody asks "how can I get realplayer to start with my system" because nobody wants it to. *censored*, nobody wants realplayer, they usually get it by accident. A PDF reader doesn't need a "boot loader" program that precaches the main executable. How often do people read PDFs, truly? certainly not enough to notice that they can start Adobe Reader over a half second faster if they let this program run in the background. If the people want it, they'll ask for it. I know the feeling that causes this and I've done the same. "wow  this program is great I'm sure people will want X" and I add it, then I go back to that program a few months later and chastise myself for such management-level thinking.