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Author Topic: america's debt clock  (Read 15693 times)

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harry 48

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america's debt clock
« on: September 21, 2010, 04:19:41 PM »
what a lot of money , will they ever get out of debt , click oddhammer and enlarge


<embed
allowscriptaccess="never"
src="http://oddhammer.com/tutorials/debt_clock/US_debt_clock_small.swf" quality="high" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
width="230"
height="40">
</embed>

patio

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 06:26:17 PM »
Innacurrate at best...
Besides if we are going to discuss Politics here i predict this Topic won't last long....
Just my HMO...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 01:24:02 PM »
Innacurrate at best...
Besides if we are going to discuss Politics here i predict this Topic won't last long....
Just my HMO...

hi patio , i'm not discussing politics its only a clock counting money owed  ;D  do you think the figure is way to little

Allan

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 01:28:46 PM »
I think I'm tired of your passive-aggressive attitude toward America.

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 02:02:11 PM »
Almost every country in the world is in debt.

You cannot take a single flat number and say it "means more" then a corresponding number from another country.

As a percentage of GDP, for example, Canada's Debt is a good 20% higher then the U.S.

Another example:

the U.S's approx Debt as of 30 June 2009  is about 13,450,000,000,000 dollars. (about 43,758 per capita) and it is 94% if their GDP- that is, their Gross Domestic product is <higher> then the entire debt.

as of 30 June 2009, the U.K external debt lists at 9,088,000,000,000, which is 147,060 per capita, and a WHOPPING 416% of their GDP; that is, their debt is over 4 times their Gross Domestic product.

Now I ask, who is more likely to get out of debt? The country whose GDP is higher then their debt or the country whose debt is 4 times their GDP? Perhaps there should be a novelty time-based counter that counts U.K debt clock?

I've found the issue of foreign debt quite curious, since almost every country has some debt- so the question is- WHO is the creditor? you would think that if, say, Canada borrowed a few million from the U.S and then later the U.S borrowed a few million from Canada (well, it's not direct, it would occur via export/import value difference I imagine) but, you would think that they would consider it even, but somehow both countries have netted themselves more debt? (edit: appears I have confused foreign debt with the trade deficit) It's all quite confusing. I doubt anybody truly understands *censored* it all means. Maybe it's a ploy by government accountants to make sure they keep their job; enforce all sorts of ridiculous debt-related rules so that no country can ever get out of debt, and considering no country seems to NOT have debt, the question (as I noted) is who are they indebted to? It certainly can't be other countries, since those other countries are indebted to them and other countries. In fact, it seems every country owes every country but at the same time no country owes any other country. *censored* this confusing financial talk. Perhaps there are aliens involved here somewhere, since if this external debt is not of Earth origin clearly we are borrowing from some other planet.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Salmon Trout

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 02:22:09 PM »
To some extent, Britain's high gross external debt to GDP ratio reflects the big part played by banking and financial services in the UK economy. According to National Statistics the UK External Debt – (gross) is £6,290 bn - this is roughly 430% of GDP -  of which only £26bn is owed by government. The biggest balance is the banking sector which owes nearly £4,000 bn. These banking liabilities should be cancelled out by an equal amount of foreign assets. Though if these assets deteriorated, the UK’s position would definitely worsen. Other countries with higher ratios are Ireland 1004% Luxembourg 3854% Netherlands 470% Liberia 606%. Except for the last, these are countries where banking plays a big role in the economy.

I believe the UK's net external debt is nearer 30% of GDP. Certainly it is not out of line with other G7 countries. Indeed, Moody's and Standard & Poor's consider that external debt ratios are irrelevant from a credit perspective for countries with fully convertible reserve currencies and do not even quote them (Fitch Ratings do).


patio

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 02:43:26 PM »
Financial Debt = Monies borrowed upon that eventually come due...

Trade deficit = The balance between goods sold and goods imported.

2 very different animals.
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

patio

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 02:47:12 PM »
However expanding on both BC and Salmon's comments the interesting thing to consider...which most don't do is where is that debt stored ? ?
It's important to track the trends of who your biggest creditors are and how efficiently you have spread your borrowing...
This is more an indicator of if you have a healthy debt to loss ratio than sheer numbers...

Anyone can borrow money for chrisssake...it's who you owe that says where you are financially...

Carry on...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

Salmon Trout

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 02:56:58 PM »
In 1995 when I first got a mortgage to buy a £37,500 house, I was earning £15,000 per year, so my debt-to-annual-income ratio was 250%. I did not consider myself to be a basket case, even though at the start the interest rate was nearly 7%.

harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 02:57:38 PM »
I think I'm tired of your passive-aggressive attitude toward America.

 :'(  and pray tell me of any derogatory remarks i have made towards the country of America or in fact any country

and to all other readers i just put a clock in a post  ::)  if there was one for Britain i would have put it in

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 03:01:47 PM »
Just to add my 2 pennies worth and I have no illusions of understanding all this to it's fullest. But when the UK bailed out the banks as they did in the US, the UK government owned a percentage of the banks that were helped. Surely this can then be off-set against the debt that is owed as this is income that should go directly to paying off said debt.
I may be way off but thought I would mention it.
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harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 03:06:04 PM »
Just to add my 2 pennies worth and I have no illusions of understanding all this to it's fullest. But when the UK bailed out the banks as they did in the US, the UK government owned a percentage of the banks that were helped. Surely this can then be off-set against the debt that is owed as this is income that should go directly to paying off said debt.
I may be way off but thought I would mention it.

you are right but they said they will not sell them for about 4 or 5 years in that time the wealth will have increased and they will be debt free and so worth more , and so the gov; will have made money on the back of the banks by selling their shares

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2010, 03:10:51 PM »
if there was one for Britain i would have put it in

there is, and you didn't.



I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2010, 03:34:02 PM »
there is, and you didn't.





its news to me if i find the link i'll put it in , there it is  :)

http://www.debtbombshell.com/

harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2010, 03:54:34 PM »
I think I'm tired of your passive-aggressive attitude toward America.

:'(  and pray tell me of any derogatory remarks i have made towards the country of America or in fact any country



i did not think you would come back with an answer to the statement you made above

patio

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2010, 04:33:21 PM »
Wow... a pissing match in a Political Topic...

Who woulda thunk it ? ? ?
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2010, 07:06:06 AM »
Wow... a pissing match in a Political Topic...

Who woulda thunk it ? ? ?

political matter debatable  ;)

if someone makes a derogatory statement towards another member in the forum , do you not think he should be able to back the statement up or withdraw it or apoligise

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2010, 07:16:50 AM »
All someone needs to do now is mention Religion and we can have a PARTY!  :)
For when the One Great Scorer comes
To write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost,
But how you played the game.

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harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2010, 07:41:30 AM »
All someone needs to do now is mention Religion and we can have a PARTY!  :)

i like it and your right  ;)

BTW i never mentioned politics  ;D

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2010, 07:44:52 AM »
What is a "passive-aggressive" attitude?


harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2010, 07:53:06 AM »
What is a "passive-aggressive" attitude?

very good salmon i don't think anyone noticed that well spotted , how can you be passive and aggressive at the same time , but maybe its the signs of these modern times we live and the fast living , maybe its affecting peoples minds and there are new meanings coming out

Salmon Trout

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2010, 07:58:34 AM »
Is it like saying "Of course there are plenty of thin, intelligent, good-looking Americans"?

harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2010, 08:17:04 AM »
Is it like saying "Of course there are plenty of thin, intelligent, good-looking Americans"?

 :rofl: i'm not going to answer that , it could get you into trouble

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harry 48

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2010, 09:14:34 AM »
http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&q=define%3A+passive+aggresive&aq=f&aqi=g5&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=32501

thank you willy , no none of those things  :rofl:

Definitions of passive aggressive on the Web:

•Passive–aggressive behavior (negative personality trait) is passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to following through with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive

•Pertaining to behavior in which feelings of aggression are expressed in passive ways as, for example, by stubbornness, sullenness, procrastination, or intentional inefficiency. See the entire definition of Passive-aggressive
www.medicinenet.com/domestic_violence/glossary.htm

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2010, 09:15:30 AM »
It's like many other phrases we use in English: military intelligence, awfully nice, valuable junk, virtual reality, work party, countless numbers, dry martini, negative gain, numb feeling, Quiet Riot, green orange, express mail, human evolution, Icy Hot, government initiative, group of individuals, going nowhere, original copy, plastic silverware, sound of silence, United Nations, or putting "This page intentionally left blank" on a blank page therefore making it no longer blank...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 09:33:34 AM by quaxo »

patio

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2010, 09:24:41 AM »
You forgot Jumbo Shrimp..... :P
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2010, 09:28:08 AM »
What is a "passive-aggressive" attitude?


Quote
The term passive-aggressive  is used to describe someone who exhibits manipulative behavior within their personality. On the surface, the traits may appear as stubbornness or a polite unwillingness to agree with a situation. The end result is that the person is manipulating you to turn to their way of thinking.

...

The term passive-aggressive  is thought to have originated during World War II. Soldiers were found to be shirking their duties, but in ways that were not openly disobedient. The army used the term passive-aggressive in a bulletin sent to soldiers regarding this behavior. Many soldiers saw this behavior as a simple response in order to keep from being killed during the war.



Also, I find it interesting that nobody suddenly jumped at me about it when I used the term, here:

I got a kick out of responding to his posts using his own passive aggressive style.

or here
Quote from: BC_Programmer link=topic=106986.msg722826#msg722826
Marvin, in his completely vain attempts at offending us using his passive-aggressive methods, has clearly provided case and point for the last quote he posted.


These were quite some time ago, surely somebody could have set up a straw man argument in those threads against me. Why the existence of a term suddenl depends on the person using it is quite beyond my comprehension.


i did not think you would come back with an answer to the statement you made above

Actually, to be frank, I had a nice long post drafted out. But I changed my mind, and moved on to more productive tasks, like my typical Canadian hobby of eating moosemeat and killing seals, while my British grandmother drinks tea and has bad teeth and my Australian cousin molests kangaroos, and always says "g'day mate". In any case my point was, that you were being passive aggressive, since you were doing everything BUT saying anything bad outright about the U.S,(that way you don't have to actually defend your position, you just say "I never said that!") and instead speaking through implications. Posting the debt clock, for example, was an implication that their government manages money badly. Well here's a news flash that's what governments do. And you never see things in the news like "government managing money well" or "municipal funds in excellent hands" anywhere, for any government. Because A, that doesn't make news, and B, Nobody wants to hear good things about the government that they send their taxes too, EXCEPT when that government is compared to some other countries government, and then suddenly they are on a pedestal. This typical manifests itself with a "well it's not as bad as in..." and then naming another country. typically of course the U.S, for what reason I am unsure, especially since I have a sneaking suspicion that any number of Nigerian officials are mismanaging government funds, because I've had quite a few offer me millions of it in exchange for only a few thousand in fees. Clearly there is something sneaky going on over there.


Quote
Is it like saying "Of course there are plenty of thin, intelligent, good-looking Americans"?
Except that there are.

BTW i never mentioned politics  ;D

hmm, let's see, government debt clocks? implicit stabs at the U.S? Sounds pretty political to me.


I find it rather disturbing that people on the entire other side of an ocean can form such strong and explicitly negative feelings about a country that they seldom know except through their own country's media. It's curious that these people would generally never subscribe to forming opinions based on third-hand information, and yet at the same time that's exactly what happens.

Even if one was to visit the U.S, for example, you still wouldn't have an accurate barometer with which to measure the country as a whole, so how it's so easy to measure every american with the same yardstick from 4 thousand or so miles away boggles the mind. I know quite a number of americans personally, and since I live relatively close to the border (although across a strait, which serves a tourism buffer, I suppose) I see quite a few to the point where I need to exchange bills between US and CDN currency. Aside from the fact that they have the standard "touristy" look to them (which is not exceptional compared to similar tourists that I've seen from other locations, such as Germany and Finland) they merely seemed like Human beings to me. They weren't fat, stupid, or "bad-looking" (I was unaware of this particular stereotype)

Perhaps I should have expected something different?


All someone needs to do now is mention Religion and we can have a PARTY!  :)

Possum Passover.

Now we party.
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quaxo



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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2010, 09:59:42 AM »
...alone in a crowd, better than new, old news, military pacifist, minor miracle, hard curve, exact estimate, home office, unwelcome guest, 12-ounce pound cake, to infinity and beyond, pretty ugly, boneless ribs, Dodge Ram, new tradition, mutual differences, honest thief, white chocolate, golf fashion, extremely bland, harmonious discord, good beating, somewhat functional, stationary orbit, vegetarian meatball, long shorts, floppy disk, educational television, civilized warfare, American culture, a lock on the door of a 7-11, Cherokee Pioneer, daily special, dull shine...

...come on, this is seriously funny stuff...


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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2010, 10:32:27 AM »
The opposite of "good-looking" is "ugly", I think.

patio

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Re: america's debt clock
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2010, 12:38:30 PM »
Another Instant Classic...moved to the Vault.
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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    Re: america's debt clock
    « Reply #31 on: September 25, 2010, 11:49:23 PM »
    Financial Debt = Monies borrowed upon that eventually come due...

    Trade deficit = The balance between goods sold and goods imported.

    2 very different animals.

    No debt No money

    patio

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    Re: america's debt clock
    « Reply #32 on: September 26, 2010, 12:49:51 AM »
    Not sure what you mean by that but i agree 100%...
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    quaxo



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    Re: america's debt clock
    « Reply #33 on: September 26, 2010, 12:58:44 AM »
    Absolutely.

    rthompson80819



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    Re: america's debt clock
    « Reply #34 on: September 26, 2010, 07:49:19 PM »
    No mention of Iceland?  If they ever had a debt clock, it's probably been sold by now.

    patio

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    Re: america's debt clock
    « Reply #35 on: September 26, 2010, 11:50:36 PM »
    Good one......
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    reddevilggg



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    Re: america's debt clock
    « Reply #36 on: December 29, 2010, 07:02:21 AM »
    Never mind, its been removed.
    11 cheers for binary !