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Author Topic: Backing up Xbox Games?  (Read 23477 times)

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SilentAssasin64



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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2010, 06:00:23 PM »
<snip>

Really? Name a single commercial PC title and non home-brew console title that specifically say this.
Don't Valve games have a backup method built into Steam?

Quote
*censored* do "ROMS" have to do with this? Neither the Xbox 360 nor the Xbox runs "ROMS" and the closest anybody came to talking about "ROMS" was me when I noted a specific copyright case regarding Nintendo, which used ROM-cart based games in those days.
The original Xbox could play ROMs, if it were modded.

Quote
First, they are almost never legal for something on a console, and second, they are hardly ever legal for PC games
This is partially true.  Heavy emphasis on "almost".

Quote
<snip>

technically it's installing it. I don't think you could make, say, recreate another disk out of this information. It's probably different then what is on the disk in some way.
This is also true.  The BIOS in Xbox systems are setup to only boot discs/apps with "signed code".  If you were to clone a game to a blank DVD it wouldn't read it properly.  Which is why most/all original Xbox mods flashed the BIOS with a homebrew version to allow the use of unsigned code.

Quote
<snip>

I would imagine DVD2XBOX hooks into something and/or performs some sort of modification to the system software in order to install itself.
DVD2XBOX was originally a homebrew app for modded original Xbox's.  It worked by copying all the information from a game/movie/other disc to the hard drive, then adding shortcuts for said game/movie/disc to the modded Dashboard.  This allowed one to, literally, copy and run games strictly from a hard drive.  As far as I'm aware it hasn't been released for the Xbox 360.

I'm not so sure about the 360, but with the original Xbox there was a small file called the EEPROM that would register the information about your hard drive and BIOS version with Microsoft via Xbox Live.  In essence, the EEPROM 'married' your hard drive to your BIOS.  If you were to, say, divorce the drive, XBL would notice the change, and ban you. 

As far as legality, according to this article from the US Copyright Office, there are some circumstances where bypassing copyright protection is legal (assuming you live the in US).  Anything outside of that, is not.
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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2010, 06:12:40 PM »
Writing a novel?  ;D

Quote
Really? Name a single commercial PC title and non home-brew console title that specifically say this.

and

Quote
As I'm sure you're aware, most "No-CD" cracks are distributed as a "patched" executable. Aside from those released by the manufacturer itself (which is still quite uncommon) people patching the executables themselves requires them to "disassemble, modify, and create derivative works" That clearly violates the EULA of almost any semi-modern game.


Er lets see, off the top of my head...

Ubisoft has a huge collection games for starters they have released No/CD cracks for, they even got labeled for stealing a scenes crack and using that to fix their retail game 'Raindow 6 - Vegas 2', lol. How does reversed copyright work in this case?

Rockstar Games also release a collection of game No/CD patchs, specially for GTA 4!

Firefly Studios and Take 2 did a few, for example the Strongehold series.

Blizzard did it for the Warcraft series, Diablo and others.

ID Software did a few like Doom 3.

and yep Value are all No/CD...


Why punish those that actually support and purchase the software? If they didn't allow it - all it's doing is pissing off the legal people. Pirates could care less. At least the major developers understand this.

Xbox doesn't even need this No/CD patch as it's already built into it's hardware.

As mentioned before (if installed on HD):
1) The disc is only read to verify the security code at the beginning.
2) Once that is done, the optical drive stops and the game loads completely from the HD.


Quote
*censored* do "ROMS" have to do with this?

I was answering another person's question about ROMs. And yes, you can get third party emulators which run ROMS on your Xbox and Xbox 360. Doesn't make them all legal though, but some games people make are perfectly fine to use legally (most of them are rubbish however).

Quote
Quote
Xbox is well known to scratch the disc like crazy if slightly bumped or moved with the disc still in the drive.
Didn't know this.

Xbox is a nightmare to transport and has a huge warning to remove disc when moving (even to add a 'pad' disc in it's place). Leaving the disc in the drive to known to tilt slightly and scratch the disc if bumped. It also has overheat and freezing issues at the same time! But that's another issue.

I guess...
DVD2XBOX = original xbox mod to do it created by third party.
New Dashboard 'Copy to Hard drive' option on the Xbox = Microsoft's 'stolen' copy of that application for Xbox 360 making it legal, lol. :P
... just like how they ripped off that 'Geometry Wars' game on Xbox 360 Arcade. Naughty, naughty - fun game and all, but original created by someone else on the Mac!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 06:34:09 PM by Azzaboi »
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Carbon Dudeoxide

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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2010, 09:48:46 PM »
To tired to read the above few posts, but DVD2XBOX is separate from Microsoft's 'Install To Hard Drive' feature.


Backing up your game is not legal. Period.

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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2010, 10:24:28 PM »
To simplify from the novel:

Microsoft's 'Install To Hard Drive' feature is the new backup feature!
DVD2XBOX was the modded original version of this (third party), before Microsoft decided to allow it and make their own.
The latest live updates requires that the disc is validated first, then the game can run entirely from HDD.
If you want to call it a full install instead is entirely up to you (it dumps the entire disc content can be ~8GB per disc).

Backing up your game is perfectly legal, lots of game developers support it even Microsoft.  ;)
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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2010, 10:33:09 PM »
Installing the game to hard drive does not back up the disc. It is not touted as a backup feature.

Think about this. Backing up a disc means you do not need the original.
If you still need the disc in the tray to run from hard drive, it is not a backup.


DVD2XBOX is NO way a part of Microsoft. It is a third-party application developed for modded consoles.


Quote
Backing up your game is perfectly legal, lots of game developers support it even Microsoft. 
Where does it say this? Source?

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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2010, 10:59:04 PM »
Yeah ok I agree...
Quote
DVD2XBOX is NO way a part of Microsoft. It is a third-party application developed for modded consoles.

However...
I also said 'Geometry Wars' is no way a part of Microsoft, they ripped off that from Mac (I think they might of even got sued).
Internet Explorer 8 was ripped off from Firefox, etc (FF is pissed off with them when they did that).
They've learnt to please users by ripping off things they already like, seems to be working for them a bit better.
So I'm saying they got the idea from DVD2XBOX and made their own builtin 'copying disc to hdd' application.

If you don't call copying an entire disc to your HD a backup, I don't know what you call it?

Verifying the disc (it's just a check to ensure it's legal) was added in an update, it doesn't actually require the disc when playing (it can be scratched). PCs use serials, activation, etc, to validate it's legal instead normally so don't need the disc.

Source see a few listed above,
look up some offical game update(s) for example...

Warcraft 3 (patch 1.21b)
Wow this patch means the game doesn't need the disc, oh noes Blizzard has gone crazy making people happy not having to fumble around with a well used cd!
http://n4g.com/news/108266/warcraft-iii-frozen-throne-patch-1-21b-released


StarCraft (with or without Broodwar installed) - Offical Patch 1.15.2
Code: [Select]
Starcraft and Brood War Patch Information

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.15.2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feature Changes

- StarCraft and StarCraft: BroodWar no longer require the CD while playing the
game. To play without the CD, please follow the following instructions:

- Windows Users:
- Make sure you have "Hide extensions for known types" unchecked under
Explorer Folder Options.
- If you own only StarCraft, copy "INSTALL.EXE" from the StarCraft CD to
your StarCraft folder and rename it to "StarCraft.mpq".
- If you own StarCraft: Brood War, copy "INSTALL.EXE" from the StarCraft:
Brood War CD to your StarCraft folder and rename it to "BroodWar.mpq".

- Mac users:
- If you own only StarCraft, copy "StarCraft Archive" from the StarCraft CD
to your StarCraft folder.
- If you own StarCraft: Brood War, copy "Brood War Archive" from the
StarCraft: Brood War CD to your StarCraft folder.


Microsoft Halo 1.08 Official No-CD Patch Released!
http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halopc/patch/halopc108patch.exe


or how about Ubisoft stealing a third party crack to fix their own game?
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26498099


I could probably find a few thousand if I was bothered...

Lot of users suffered from copy protection related problems or scratched discs, etc. The irony is they are all the legal users.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 11:32:15 PM by Azzaboi »
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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2010, 11:12:52 PM »
If MS hasn't created and released windows we'd all be using Norton commander and/or Desqview.

Something to think about.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 11:32:21 PM by BC_Programmer »
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2010, 11:50:11 PM »
I'm going to back up my Halo 2 PC game by installing it to my computer.

CBMatt

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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2010, 01:05:32 AM »
BC touched on a few of these things, so there might be a few repeats...

I don't own an xbox, but my friends do. I at least still know legal rights...
Which means you are trying to argue about something with which you have no experience.  So far, you have not proven that you understand legal rights.

Most software/game companies allow backups of their disc to 'safeguard them from loss or scratches', some don't (this is written on their copyright statement or the disc itself). It is the same for PC games as well as console games.
No, most do not.  Some do, but most don't.  But it doesn't matter because you would have to modify the Xbox 360 anyway, which is against the ToS.

However NO/CD cracks are legal if you own the game and even some game developers release them for people to use.
Some companies do indeed release them.  That doesn't make all cracks legal; only the official ones.

Xbox is well known to scratch the disc like crazy if slightly bumped or moved with the disc still in the drive.
Microsoft has a 'money making scheme' ... oh i mean a 'disc replacement program' costing $20 per extra disc copy of a few of the games (not allowed to be copyed by the owner) and sent by post.
Like you said, you don't own a console...otherwise, you might realize that this is an overexaggeration.  Most consoles don't have this issue at all; those that do are old models and it definitely requires more than a slight bump or simply moving the console.

Xbox 360 also has disc copying software provided. This is legal and even supported by / offically published by Microsoft. It copies the game to the HDD of the Xbox 360 to play without the disc.
Wrong, it is not disc-copying software.  The 360 allows you to install a game like you would on the PC.  The disc is still required.

Look it up before you go on a rant.
I have been a gamer since the NES, I write for gaming publications, and I have contacts with people at all of the major companies (Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, 2K, THQ, etc.).  I don't know everything, but I am not at all unfamiliar with this subject.

My friend just messaged back:
Download the "DVD2XBOX" software onto your Xbox 360 console from Xbox Live and it appears under applications on the dashboard.
You should make sure your Xbox hard drive has plenty of free space before doing this.
Funny, I found that exact quote on several sites.  Either your "friend" is lying or "he" simply doesn't know what he's talking about.  It is a program that is packaged along with a certain mod.  This is not a legal program and is not supported by Microsoft, so it certainly cannot be downloaded from Live.  Also, this isn't even for the Xbox 360; it was for the original Xbox.

NOTE: Just because something is on eHow, that doesn't mean it works.

The older xbox360 games such as Halo 3 and such are not optimized for harddrive install and will run slower.

Oblivion installed to the harddrive has RIDICULOUSLY faster loading times as with Left 4 Dead games and Modern Warfare games, etc.
So, older games like Halo 3 run slower, but a game even older than that runs much faster?  Your statements are contradictory.  They are also false.  It sounds like you are getting a lot of your info from this page:
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-619456.html

Keep in mind that most of those people don't actually know what they are talking about.  For the record, regardless of the game, the speed increase is negligible and most loading times will improve by only a few seconds.  Some of the newest games are starting to beat these times, but there is not a huge difference yet.

Microsoft's 'Install To Hard Drive' feature is the new backup feature!
Except that it doesn't backup your games.  You don't actually know the difference between a backup and an install, do you?

DVD2XBOX was the modded original version of this (third party), before Microsoft decided to allow it and make their own.
You have never used DVD2XBOX, so you don't realize that it is very different from the installation feature.  But it doesn't matter anyway because it has nothing to do with the 360.

Backing up your game is perfectly legal, lots of game developers support it even Microsoft.  ;)
You would be the worst game show contentast ever.  It is not perfectly legal and Microsoft absolutely does not support backups.  Their ToS explicitly states that they do not support them.

I also said 'Geometry Wars' is no way a part of Microsoft, they ripped off that from Mac (I think they might of even got sued).
You're right, Geometry Wars is in no way part of Microsoft.  That's why they were never sued.  Can't exactly be sued for something you had no part in.  Geometry Wars was created by Bizarre Creations and they weren't sued either.  What in the world are you even talking about?

So I'm saying they got the idea from DVD2XBOX and made their own builtin 'copying disc to hdd' application.
Yes, because PC's have never allowed you to install games.  DVD2XBOX invented it.  Good catch.

If you don't call copying an entire disc to your HD a backup, I don't know what you call it?
Seriously, how have you lasted this long on a computer help forum?

Verifying the disc (it's just a check to ensure it's legal) was added in an update
No, it wasn't.  Verification has always been part of the disc installation.





Most of what you have said here is wildly incorrect and, frankly, a bit idiotic.

Excuse me while I quote this again...
Look it up before you go on a rant.
I don't have to "look it up" as I have loads of first-hand experience.  The problem with simply looking it up is that your head gets filled with false information found by random postings on the internet.  This is obviously a topic you know nothing about and the discussion would greatly benefit if you would kindly step aside.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 01:45:48 AM by CBMatt »
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Azzaboi



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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2010, 01:24:11 AM »
You can twist my words and reinterpet them, but...

According to the law Copyright And Rights Regulations Act (CRRA), copying games as backup proposes is totally legal. What is the illegal thing is profiting from copying games. You can copy games for personal usage but you can't profit, share, modify or sell your copy to other. If you are to sell or get rid of the original disc, you must also destroy the backup copy.

In a nutshell - you may legally make a copy of your CD for personal backup if you were the one who bought (and still own) the original.

Computer games users enjoy a special privilege under the existing copyright law. According to Section 50(A) of the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act, legal purchasers of computer games are explicitly permitted to make a backup copy of their purchase.

Also note: If a disc has some form of anti-copy protection, it is a criminal offence to either circumvent that protection yourself, or to give anyone else any device or piece of information which will enable them to do so. You can't break or bypass verification / activations cracks, which is where the illegal issues of pirating is covered.

This section of the law has NOT been changed by the CRRA and still remains in effect.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 01:37:57 AM by Azzaboi »
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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2010, 01:36:38 AM »
<snip>

Also note: If a disc has some form of anti-copy protection, it is a criminal offence to either circumvent that protection yourself, or to give anyone else any device or piece of information which will enable them to do so. You can't break or bypass verification / activations cracks, which is where the illegal issues of pirating is covered.

This section of the law has NOT been changed by the CRRA and still remains in effect.
<snip>


Not entirely true.  See here for a list of 6 circumstances where bypassing anti-copy protection is legal.
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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2010, 02:06:26 AM »
You can twist my words and reinterpet them, but...
I did not twist your words.  I quoted them verbatim and explained why you were oh-so wrong.  Or rather, your sources are wrong...it has already been established that you are not familiar with the topic at hand.


According to the law Copyright And Rights Regulations Act (CRRA), copying games as backup proposes is totally legal. What is the illegal thing is profiting from copying games. You can copy games for personal usage but you can't profit, share, modify or sell your copy to other. If you are to sell or get rid of the original disc, you must also destroy the backup copy.
All you do is copy/paste your responses without doing any actual research.  First of all, the CRRA still states that it is illegal to modify console hardware and if you actually read the amendment instead of simply quoting PC Magazine, you will see that there are still restrictions when it comes to making backups.  But none of this really matters because the CRRA is under UK law and this is a US web site, which means we operate under US law, so the CRRA is completely meaningless here.  If something is considered illegal in the US, it is also considered illegal on this web site.
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Azzaboi



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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2010, 10:07:06 AM »
@SilentAssasin64 - Thanks for the correction.

@CBMatt -
I agreed that the modding and/or modify of hardware is not allowed.
I was saying software backups are fine and even some no/cd patchs are allowed.

I forgot that this site only supports US (who only care about US) and laws maybe different in other countries. My bad I forgot they must have a 'fake' sense of freedom. I have no idea how your cybercafes / netcafe run legal then? They all should be shutdown or I'm really curious to understand the silly loophole, or maybe they just give a collection of discs to each user with the label please return after use, thanks! Over here they dump multiple games to the hard drive many without the use of the disc or using a cloned ISO backup copy (and just multiple licensing). We are allow to run a number of games by license and not just by the stupid disc - they stay nicely stacked on the wall as a pretty display inside their box.

That is what is all so confusing my little brain?

Oh and what is a verbatim, isn't that a disc for burning information onto (in which case, yes I do have a photographic memory) or a fail at insulting me? Vermin, varmint or varmit (if that's what you meant) control the world's population. I think your hyper squirrels to be rather cute (specially the red little ones) and without them eatting some of the bird's eggs (being pests as you call it) your have a overrun of more lazy fat pigeons pooing all over the place. It's natures balance.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 10:46:27 AM by Azzaboi »
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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2010, 11:14:42 AM »
Oh, how mature.

Quote from: http://www.computerhope.com/legal.htm
THIS [legal] AGREEMENT WILL BE GOVERNED BY AND CONSTRUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE STATE OF UTAH .

Quote
My bad I forgot they must have a 'fake' sense of freedom.
When you registered on this site you agreed to be bound by the laws governing this website, i.e. US/Utah laws. Do you not agree with them? If not, then by all means leave.

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Re: Backing up Xbox Games?
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2010, 11:19:56 AM »
Please read the next sentence following that one to explain why I said it:
Quote
My bad I forgot they must have a 'fake' sense of freedom. I have no idea how your cybercafes / netcafe run legal then?

I'm saying US must be breaking their own laws, have a loophole in their rules or clearly not understanding them? That is unless your wrong or netcafe don't actually exisit there legally? I said nothing about agreeing or disagreeing to your law - I just said I must be not understand that part.
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