Backing up Xbox Games?

[johngetter]

Ok I was going through my college box and found some old xbox games. I popped them in my 360 and they ran fine.
Then I looked to see the back and I was like WOW!  Im suprised that they still run with some deep scratches.
So I heard you can backup xbox games. Ive done it before but that was with my old xbox. 

What i Hear is dual-layered DVD-ROM is what you want to burn on. But smaller xbox games like halo 1 and 2
can be burned to a single layered disc and run fine on a xbox. 

I want to make a backup of halo 2....

But heres the problem i dont have a old xbox anymore i have the 360. And they say the 360 can only run dual layered dvds...is that for the 360 games or both 360 and xbox games? ??

its because i have a load of single layered dvds  and just wondering if they can run on my 360 like my xbox (without dual Layer)

Thanks a ton!! 

[johngetter]

[recovering disk space - old attachment deleted by admin]

[CBMatt]

There are a few problems with this:

1.  Xbox 360 can only play some old Xbox games, those of which are listed here:
http://www.xbox.com/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm
As you know, some of your games do work (you tested that yourself), but some of them might not.

2.  The Xbox 360 does not play backups.  In order to do this, you would have to modify the console in a way that would void the warranty and likely get you banned from Xbox Live.  It is also technically considered illegal.  Granted, you won't have the police busting down your door, but Microsoft legally owns the hardware and they reserve the right to refuse you service.

3.  The same goes for backups of games.  Despite what people say, backup copies aren't actually legal.  Like I said, police won't come after you, but if it is determined that you are playing backups, you will be banned.  It may seem like a strange concept, but the only thing you actually own is the piece of plastic that the game is on.  You do not own the game itself; you only paid for the right to play it.  Therefore, unless allowance has been issued by Microsoft or the suppliers, backups are a no-no.

A quote from Microsoft's terms of service:

You may not copy, download, modify or create derivative works, publish, transmit, sell or attempt to sell or transfer, or otherwise use or exploit any software unless we or our suppliers have expressly allowed you to do so.

4.  This is not something we help with.  What you want to do can be done (although you run the high risk of getting caught) and we certainly can't stop you from finding the information on Google, but it is our policy to not assist with matters of this nature.



I can, however, give you a useful, legal suggestion that is much cheaper:
http://www.amazon.com/Peel-Stick-Protectors-Pack-Dispenser/dp/B001JYWXDI
This is just example; there are many different disc protectors you can choose from.  These protectors won't get rid of current scratches, but they will prevent new ones.

You could also try this product, although I do not personally know how well it works:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoozen-Protector-Xbox-Game-Protection/dp/B000WTZMHK

[JJ 3000]

2.  The Xbox 360 does not play backups.  In order to do this, you would have to modify the console in a way that would void the warranty and likely get you banned from Xbox Live.  It is also technically considered illegal.  Granted, you won't have the police busting down your door, but Microsoft legally owns the hardware and they reserve the right to refuse you service.

Really?
They own the hardware?
When you go to Wal-mart and buy an Xbox, what are you paying for?
If you were to buy a new Xbox and intentionally destroy it, would that be considered illegal?

[jason2074]

but if it is determined that you are playing backups, you will be banned

Does this pertain to digital signatures while playing online? I've heard(only) which may be true or not that making a back-up or buying a pirated cd to play on a modified xbox console will copy also the master digital signature onto the copied/backup cd.

[BC_Programmer]

Really?
They own the hardware?
When you go to Wal-mart and buy an Xbox, what are you paying for?
If you were to buy a new Xbox and intentionally destroy it, would that be considered illegal?

They own the hardware to the extent of it's setup and configuration and the software and firmware it runs.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/649675/playing_backups_on_xbox_360_is_it_legal.html

Above link says that it's "legal" to make backups of games (they are probably, like most people, under the impression that you can "own" a game. Not really.

You own a <license> to the game software. This is hardly anything new, It's the same story with, say, Nintendo cartridges. It doesn't matter how many copies of Super Mario World you have, you don't "own" the software. You own the physical cartridge case, and the circuit board and battery inside; but you don't, for example, own the actual ROM. Therefore, the whole Emulation retort "but according to fair use I can copy my games" is redundant since you don't own the game ROMs to dump. It doesn't stop people, but wether it's legal and wether it's something that, as Chris noted, will have police busting down your door are two different matters. However this forum adheres to the former regardless of the state of the latter.

A common retort to the "copying of software/games etc is not illegal because the fair use act of 1992 says I can". These folks apparently neglect to actually read the act and see that it mostly pertains to the copying of Digital Audio Tapes, which I don't believe are used for, say, Xbox games. Additionally, that act has been amended several times since (and in fact was an amendment to a 1976 act itself) by, for example, the DMCA, which quite clearly prohibits this. Additionally, the replacement of hardware component of the console is viewable as something that not only breaks the Xbox live Terms of service, but also as a form of circumvention around the protection that the original chip provides.

A similar problem was when Tengen decided they didn't need Nintendo's special lockout chips- which were required in order for a game cartridge to properly communicate and be used by the console.- that is, Nintendo could dictate who was able to publish games because they needed to get that chip from nintendo for their carts. Tired of Nintendo's restrictive licensing rules, they instead reverse engineered the chips (the 10NES chip that was on the console) and put their own chip into their cartridges. The relevance here is that, while they were in fact a separate company acting on their own to create a product, they still lost the case (ok, not really, they actually settled out of court, but up to that point it seemed to be working in Nintendo's favour). So with that in mind, and the obvious analogue to modding a purchased console, it stands to reason what the legality of said modding is and therefore of "backups"... even if it <was> legal to make backups, backups would be pretty useless if you can't use them, which you cannot with the xBox without changing the console.

yes I do like bringing up various Nintendo related stuff from early on in these types of threads. It's what I'm familar with .

[CBMatt]

Really?
They own the hardware?
When you go to Wal-mart and buy an Xbox, what are you paying for?
If you were to buy a new Xbox and intentionally destroy it, would that be considered illegal?

I didn't mean that they own the physical pieces.  Perhaps I worded that a bit awkwardly.  What I meant is that they own the rights to the hardware and its configuration, like BC stated, and you own a license to use it.  If you tamper or modify that configuration, you break the terms of service.  If you install a custom firmware or OS, you again break the terms of service.  If you physically destroy your machine, however, that wouldn't be considered vandalism.  It isn't illegal because it does not circumvent their copyrights in any way.

Anyway, because they have such ownership, they are legally allowed to render your console nearly useless.  They aren't cutthroat enough to make it unplayable, but they have been known to disable a lot of functionality.  Nintendo, on the other hand, has disabled many modded Wii consoles, leaving the owners with two options: buy a new one or send it in to Nintendo and pay to have it fixed.  NOTE: this also accidentally affected a lot of non-modded consoles, which were fixed free of charge.

Does this pertain to digital signatures while playing online? I've heard(only) which may be true or not that making a back-up or buying a pirated cd to play on a modified xbox console will copy also the master digital signature onto the copied/backup cd.

Digital signatures don't quite work that way.  There is a lot to it, but a simple explanation is that the digital signature basically tricks the console into thinking you are playing a legitimate copy.  But as far as your question is concerned, that is about the extent of it; the signature has nothing to do with playing online.  See, Microsoft doesn't catch people by finding backup games...they check the console itself.  Usually when updates are released, your console will be checked for firmware, modchips, and modified data.  If any are detected, they will ban your console from Live (reformatting will not fix this), you will no longer be able to install games to the hard drive, the media center won't work, your gamertag (achievements, etc.) will be corrupt, and they may also ban your profile.  Granted, people don't always get caught (and Microsoft doesn't always check), but you run a high risk, especially if you accidentally throw up any red flags.  They can catch you even if you are playing a legitimate copy of a game that you paid for.  If caught, you either have to deal with the consequences (which means never playing online again) or buy a whole new console.

There are a number of ways to avoid detection, but that is not something to discuss here on this forum.  Just know that even if you can avoid detection, they will still confront you if they have any suspicions.  I have been confronted before due to playing games a week or two before release and have had to explain myself.  Because I don't have a modded console, they had to contact me directly before taking action against me...thankfully, there haven't been any further issues and I can now play advanced copies without raising suspicion.

[johngetter]

So uh may a have a summery? 

[CBMatt]

In summary:

This is not something we help with.

I can, however, give you a useful, legal suggestion that is much cheaper:
http://www.amazon.com/Peel-Stick-Protectors-Pack-Dispenser/dp/B001JYWXDI
This is just example; there are many different disc protectors you can choose from.  These protectors won't get rid of current scratches, but they will prevent new ones.

You could also try this product, although I do not personally know how well it works:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoozen-Protector-Xbox-Game-Protection/dp/B000WTZMHK

[johngetter]

Oh i thought this was a place where you could get help. guess not. Theres no point in having a Game Area 

[BC_Programmer]

Oh i thought this was a place where you could get help. guess not. Theres no point in having a Game Area 

There's no point asking for help with stuff that is ILLEGAL.

[CBMatt]

Oh i thought this was a place where you could get help. guess not. Theres no point in having a Game Area 

If you had the mental capacity to actually read my posts, you'd see that I provided cheap, legal help.  If you can't understand why we don't provide help with performing illegal acts, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

[johngetter]

How is this illegal?
I have been always told I can make a copy of my dvd's and use them for personal use. They even sell software At Walmart That Copy Dvd Movies.

Whats The Difference?

I dont see it as illeagal to Make a copy for your OWN personal Use 

[BC_Programmer]

How is this illegal?
I have been always told I can make a copy of my dvd's and use them for personal use. They even sell software At Walmart That Copy Dvd Movies.

Whats The Difference?

I dont see it as illeagal to Make a copy for your OWN personal Use 

I Explained all of that.

[CBMatt]

This is pointless.  The question has been answered twice.  What is the point of asking questions if you're not going to bother with reading the answers?

[johngetter]

This is pointless.  The question has been answered twice.  What is the point of asking questions if you're not going to bother with reading the answers?

I read the answers fully.

Topic Ended

[BC_Programmer]

I read the answers fully.

So uh may a have a summery? 

Of course, the Summary was just for filing purposes, not because you hadn't read the actual responses.

[CBMatt]

And asking a question that had already been answered must have been to ensure consistency and thoroughness.

[johngetter]

And asking a question that had already been answered must have been to ensure consistency and thoroughness.

I understand this forum does not want to talk about "Illeagle " things.
And this is a help forum.
thanks for your awnsers........

[Azzaboi]

It is legal to burn Xbox and even 360 games to safeguard them from loss or scratches. There is legal issue however...

Yes, you can play single layered disc backup xbox games on a Xbox 360.
You do need to keep the original disc to stay legal.
Not all Xbox 1 games are Compatiable for play on the 360.
Only some DVD burners and Disc will work as well as the software used to burn (Sector Mapping).
You need to Flash the 360 with different Firmware or Mod it (most of these can break your warrent) to be able to play most backup DVDs.
Microsoft own's your XBox and can kill off it's connection to their network.
By purchasing a XBox, you don't own it - Microsoft owns you.

[BC_Programmer]

It is legal to burn Xbox and even 360 games to safeguard them from loss or scratches. There is legal issue however...

So, it's legal, but there is a legal issue. If something is legal, how is there a legal issue? I don't quite understand.

You do need to keep the original disc to stay legal.

Yes you do. Saying otherwise doesn't magically make it so. It's not even legal to have the first copy, for the many reasons that I already stated.

Not all Xbox 1 games are Compatiable for play on the 360.

This has been said.

You need to Flash the 360 with different Firmware or Mod it (most of these can break your warrent) to be able to play most backup DVDs.

They <ALL> break the warranty.

here's a "Summery":

Citation Needed.

[CBMatt]

It is legal to burn Xbox and even 360 games to safeguard them from loss or scratches.

No, it isn't.  Believe it or not, you don't actually have the legal right to make copies of a game, even if you do own it.  This is nonsense made up by ROM peddlers who swear up and down that if you own the original game or if you delete the ROM within 24 hours, it will be perfectly legal.  Wrong.  I personally don't care much either way, but it is tiresome to see people seem to think something is legal just because they say it is.

Most companies will turn the other cheek at those who make protective backups, but that still doesn't make them legal.

(most of these can break your warrent)

As BC stated, ALL methods WILL break the warranty.  Even softmodding.  No exceptions, no maybes.

[Azzaboi]

So, it's legal, but there is a legal issue. If something is legal, how is there a legal issue? I don't quite understand.

I don't own an xbox, but my friends do. I at least still know legal rights...

Most software/game companies allow backups of their disc to 'safeguard them from loss or scratches', some don't (this is written on their copyright statement or the disc itself). It is the same for PC games as well as console games.

Most ROMs are illegal as they are the modification of the original and you don't originally own them, there are only a hand full which are legal (personal creations for example).

Downloading or copying software you don't own - violates federal copyright law.
The no activation cracks bypassing online checks are not legal.

However NO/CD cracks are legal if you own the game and even some game developers release them for people to use. This all depends on how the game security is handle, the original disc must be kept, not shared, sold or giving away. The id / serial of the game must remain unique and used on one machine only at a time. Most games are allowed to be stored fully on the hard drive and run without the disc. Netcafes do this all the time.

The issue when it comes to the xbox is the modding or patching of it to get a copied disc to run isn't legal and as said will break warranty.

Xbox is well known to scratch the disc like crazy if slightly bumped or moved with the disc still in the drive.
Microsoft has a 'money making scheme' ... oh i mean a 'disc replacement program' costing $20 per extra disc copy of a few of the games (not allowed to be copyed by the owner) and sent by post.

Xbox 360 also has disc copying software provided. This is legal and even supported by / offically published by Microsoft. It copies the game to the HDD of the Xbox 360 to play without the disc. Reduces the "wear & tear" of your disk dive, backups discs before they get damaged, makes loading times on some games quicker, increases performance with some of the larger games like GTA 4 and reduces the annoying noise the xbox360 makes. The only con is used drive space.

Look it up before you go on a rant.

[JJ 3000]

Xbox 360 also has disc copying software provided. This is legal and even supported by / offically published by Microsoft. It copies the game to the HDD of the Xbox 360 to play without the disc.

This looks like the info that the OP needs.
Can you explain how to do it?

[Azzaboi]

I probably can ask my friend - as I said don't own an xbox myself.

As far as I know, you simply update your xbox dashboard from online and your've got the new option 'Play from hard drive' under the options somewhere. Click that with the disc in and it copies it all to your HDD. You still need the disc in the drive to verify before starting the game, then it can be removed.

My friend just messaged back:
Download the "DVD2XBOX" software onto your Xbox 360 console from Xbox Live and it appears under applications on the dashboard.
You should make sure your Xbox hard drive has plenty of free space before doing this.

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

Most software/game companies allow backups of their disc to 'safeguard them from loss or scratches', some don't (this is written on their copyright statement or the disc itself). It is the same for PC games as well as console games.

As previously stated, Citation Needed.
Can you provide any examples of companies who allow copying discs for 'backup'?

As far as I know, you simply update your xbox dashboard from online and your've got the new option 'Play from hard drive' under the options somewhere. Click that with the disc in and it copies it all to your HDD. You still need the disc in the drive to verify before starting the game, then it can be removed.

The 'Install To Hard Drive' option does not copy the disc to the Xbox. It installs the game to the hard drive.
This is a move by Microsoft to cut down loading times and speed up gameplay and has been available since the first Xbox.
This is sanctioned and created by Microsoft for their users. This is just like on a computer. You can install the game to the computer, but must have the disc to run it.
DVD2XBOX is a third party piece of software and not supported by MS.

Download the "DVD2XBOX" software onto your Xbox 360 console from Xbox Live and it appears under applications on the dashboard.
You should make sure your Xbox hard drive has plenty of free space before doing this.

DVD2XBOX, according to Google, is an Xbox mod. Mod = against terms of service and voids your warranty.

Xbox 360 also has disc copying software provided. This is legal and even supported by / offically published by Microsoft. It copies the game to the HDD of the Xbox 360 to play without the disc.

Copy disc to HD and run it without the need of the original CD?
What is this feature called? I have never seen it on my Xbox menu before.

Why does this feature not exist? Because you could go to every one of your friend's houses and 'copy' the game to their hard drives. Where's the profit in that? I'll tell you; there is no profit in piracy.

[Azzaboi]

Yeah it's that 'Install To Hard Drive' option as you said (DVD2XBOX i assumed was it), your correct it still requires the disc but just once to verify then fully runs from HD.

i quote...

The new 360 update will still require you to put the original disc in the drive even with it copied to your HHD (or fully installed) so you cant go all willy nilly copying your friend's games. It only need the disc at launching and spins it once to validate it's legal.

1) The disc is only read to verify the security code at the beginning.
2) Once that is done, the optical drive stops and the game loads completely from the HD.

The later 360 models (straight SATA II with larger HDD) are better than the older ones (running USB/SATA combo) to do this, but both should be able to support it after updating.

The older xbox360 games such as Halo 3 and such are not optimized for harddrive install and will run slower.

Oblivion installed to the harddrive has RIDICULOUSLY faster loading times as with Left 4 Dead games and Modern Warfare games, etc.

Huge scratch on one of the discs and still verifies fine and plays completely off the HDD. Microsoft still allows it multiplayer online and it's legal.

[johngetter]

Yeah it's that 'Install To Hard Drive' option as you said (DVD2XBOX i assumed was it), your correct it still requires the disc but just once to verify then fully runs from HD.

i quote...

The new 360 update will still require you to put the original disc in the drive even with it copied to your HHD (or fully installed) so you cant go all willy nilly copying your friend's games. It only need the disc at launching and spins it once to validate it's legal.

1) The disc is only read to verify the security code at the beginning.
2) Once that is done, the optical drive stops and the game loads completely from the HD.

The later 360 models (straight SATA II with larger HDD) are better than the older ones (running USB/SATA combo) to do this, but both should be able to support it after updating.

The older xbox360 games such as Halo 3 and such are not optimized for harddrive install and will run slower.

Oblivion installed to the harddrive has RIDICULOUSLY faster loading times as with Left 4 Dead games and Modern Warfare games, etc.

Huge scratch on one of the discs and still verifies fine and plays completely off the HDD. Microsoft still allows it multiplayer online and it's legal.

It would be nice to run halo 3 off the hard drive.
do you think thats why they didnt make halo 3 for PC?

[johngetter]

As previously stated, Citation Needed.
Can you provide any examples of companies who allow copying discs for 'backup'?
The 'Install To Hard Drive' option does not copy the disc to the Xbox. It installs the game to the hard drive.
This is a move by Microsoft to cut down loading times and speed up gameplay and has been available since the first Xbox.
This is sanctioned and created by Microsoft for their users. This is just like on a computer. You can install the game to the computer, but must have the disc to run it.
DVD2XBOX is a third party piece of software and not supported by MS.
DVD2XBOX, according to Google, is an Xbox mod. Mod = against terms of service and voids your warranty.

Copy disc to HD and run it without the need of the original CD?
What is this feature called? I have never seen it on my Xbox menu before.

Why does this feature not exist? Because you could go to every one of your friend's houses and 'copy' the game to their hard drives. Where's the profit in that? I'll tell you; there is no profit in piracy.

You said this "DVD2XBOX, according to Google, is an Xbox mod. Mod = against terms of service and voids your warranty."

So let me get this strait. If you Mod your 360 it voids warranty....but if i Exchange the HDD in the 360 that would be considered modding correct? Just like a PC?

[BC_Programmer]

I don't own an xbox, but my friends do. I at least still know legal rights...

I don't drive over a bridge, but my friends do, so that makes me a lawyer.

Makes sense to me.

Most software/game companies allow backups of their disc to 'safeguard them from loss or scratches', some don't (this is written on their copyright statement or the disc itself). It is the same for PC games as well as console games.

Really? Name a single commercial PC title and non home-brew console title that specifically say this.

Most ROMs are illegal as they are the modification of the original and you don't originally own them, there are only a hand full which are legal (personal creations for example).

*censored* do "ROMS" have to do with this? Neither the Xbox 360 nor the Xbox runs "ROMS" and the closest anybody came to talking about "ROMS" was me when I noted a specific copyright case regarding Nintendo, which used ROM-cart based games in those days.

However NO/CD cracks are legal if you own the game and even some game developers release them for people to use. This all depends on how the game security is handle, the original disc must be kept, not shared, sold or giving away. The id / serial of the game must remain unique and used on one machine only at a time. Most games are allowed to be stored fully on the hard drive and run without the disc. Netcafes do this all the time.

First, they are almost never legal for something on a console, and second, they are hardly ever legal for PC games. Let me explain.

As I'm sure you're aware, most "No-CD" cracks are distributed as a "patched" executable. Aside from those released by the manufacturer itself (which is still quite uncommon) people patching the executables themselves requires them to "disassemble, modify, and create derivative works" That clearly violates the EULA of almost any semi-modern game.

Xbox is well known to scratch the disc like crazy if slightly bumped or moved with the disc still in the drive.

Didn't know this. (is this both the 360 and the original?). I don't own either. my newest console is a gamecube which seems rather reliable. Of course I don't throw it across the room at full force, like one my friends who went through about 10 gamecubes because they were "fragile". Apparently, if he died in say Super mario he threw the console as hard as he could. He had anger issues.)

Xbox 360 also has disc copying software provided. This is legal and even supported by / offically published by Microsoft. It copies the game to the HDD of the Xbox 360 to play without the disc.

technically it's installing it. I don't think you could make, say, recreate another disk out of this information. It's probably different then what is on the disk in some way. Like I say though, I haven't a clue, I never bothered with anything but Nintendo consoles myself. (most of the "good" titles on the other systems are available for PC).

Reduces the "wear & tear" of your disk dive, backups discs before they get damaged, makes loading times on some games quicker, increases performance with some of the larger games like GTA 4 and reduces the annoying noise the xbox360 makes. The only con is used drive space.

a listing of the pro's and cons doesn't really make a lot of sense here.

Look it up before you go on a rant.

Only thing I can probably rant about is the fact that about 50% of your last post had nothing to do with anything in this topic.


oh hey, wait a tic, there's an entire page of replies I missed here.

Some of my post echoes Carbons.

You said this "DVD2XBOX, according to Google, is an Xbox mod. Mod = against terms of service and voids your warranty."

So let me get this strait. If you Mod your 360 it voids warranty....but if i Exchange the HDD in the 360 that would be considered modding correct? Just like a PC?

We are talking about modifying the actual hardware and software.


I would imagine DVD2XBOX hooks into something and/or performs some sort of modification to the system software in order to install itself. I don't actually know whether this is the case since my hands are still sore from the last time I looked at an original xbox controller. (who the flip designed their controllers? Picasso?)

[SilentAssasin64]

<snip>

Really? Name a single commercial PC title and non home-brew console title that specifically say this.

Don't Valve games have a backup method built into Steam?

*censored* do "ROMS" have to do with this? Neither the Xbox 360 nor the Xbox runs "ROMS" and the closest anybody came to talking about "ROMS" was me when I noted a specific copyright case regarding Nintendo, which used ROM-cart based games in those days.

The original Xbox could play ROMs, if it were modded.

First, they are almost never legal for something on a console, and second, they are hardly ever legal for PC games

This is partially true.  Heavy emphasis on "almost".

<snip>

technically it's installing it. I don't think you could make, say, recreate another disk out of this information. It's probably different then what is on the disk in some way.

This is also true.  The BIOS in Xbox systems are setup to only boot discs/apps with "signed code".  If you were to clone a game to a blank DVD it wouldn't read it properly.  Which is why most/all original Xbox mods flashed the BIOS with a homebrew version to allow the use of unsigned code.

<snip>

I would imagine DVD2XBOX hooks into something and/or performs some sort of modification to the system software in order to install itself.

DVD2XBOX was originally a homebrew app for modded original Xbox's.  It worked by copying all the information from a game/movie/other disc to the hard drive, then adding shortcuts for said game/movie/disc to the modded Dashboard.  This allowed one to, literally, copy and run games strictly from a hard drive.  As far as I'm aware it hasn't been released for the Xbox 360.

I'm not so sure about the 360, but with the original Xbox there was a small file called the EEPROM that would register the information about your hard drive and BIOS version with Microsoft via Xbox Live.  In essence, the EEPROM 'married' your hard drive to your BIOS.  If you were to, say, divorce the drive, XBL would notice the change, and ban you. 

As far as legality, according to this article from the US Copyright Office, there are some circumstances where bypassing copyright protection is legal (assuming you live the in US).  Anything outside of that, is not.

[Azzaboi]

Writing a novel? 

Really? Name a single commercial PC title and non home-brew console title that specifically say this.

and

As I'm sure you're aware, most "No-CD" cracks are distributed as a "patched" executable. Aside from those released by the manufacturer itself (which is still quite uncommon) people patching the executables themselves requires them to "disassemble, modify, and create derivative works" That clearly violates the EULA of almost any semi-modern game.

Er lets see, off the top of my head...

Ubisoft has a huge collection games for starters they have released No/CD cracks for, they even got labeled for stealing a scenes crack and using that to fix their retail game 'Raindow 6 - Vegas 2', lol. How does reversed copyright work in this case?

Rockstar Games also release a collection of game No/CD patchs, specially for GTA 4!

Firefly Studios and Take 2 did a few, for example the Strongehold series.

Blizzard did it for the Warcraft series, Diablo and others.

ID Software did a few like Doom 3.

and yep Value are all No/CD...


Why punish those that actually support and purchase the software? If they didn't allow it - all it's doing is pissing off the legal people. Pirates could care less. At least the major developers understand this.

Xbox doesn't even need this No/CD patch as it's already built into it's hardware.

As mentioned before (if installed on HD):
1) The disc is only read to verify the security code at the beginning.
2) Once that is done, the optical drive stops and the game loads completely from the HD.

*censored* do "ROMS" have to do with this?

I was answering another person's question about ROMs. And yes, you can get third party emulators which run ROMS on your Xbox and Xbox 360. Doesn't make them all legal though, but some games people make are perfectly fine to use legally (most of them are rubbish however).

Xbox is well known to scratch the disc like crazy if slightly bumped or moved with the disc still in the drive.

Didn't know this.

Xbox is a nightmare to transport and has a huge warning to remove disc when moving (even to add a 'pad' disc in it's place). Leaving the disc in the drive to known to tilt slightly and scratch the disc if bumped. It also has overheat and freezing issues at the same time! But that's another issue.

I guess...
DVD2XBOX = original xbox mod to do it created by third party.
New Dashboard 'Copy to Hard drive' option on the Xbox = Microsoft's 'stolen' copy of that application for Xbox 360 making it legal, lol.
... just like how they ripped off that 'Geometry Wars' game on Xbox 360 Arcade. Naughty, naughty - fun game and all, but original created by someone else on the Mac!

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

To tired to read the above few posts, but DVD2XBOX is separate from Microsoft's 'Install To Hard Drive' feature.


Backing up your game is not legal. Period.

[Azzaboi]

To simplify from the novel:

Microsoft's 'Install To Hard Drive' feature is the new backup feature!
DVD2XBOX was the modded original version of this (third party), before Microsoft decided to allow it and make their own.
The latest live updates requires that the disc is validated first, then the game can run entirely from HDD.
If you want to call it a full install instead is entirely up to you (it dumps the entire disc content can be ~8GB per disc).

Backing up your game is perfectly legal, lots of game developers support it even Microsoft. 

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

Installing the game to hard drive does not back up the disc. It is not touted as a backup feature.

Think about this. Backing up a disc means you do not need the original.
If you still need the disc in the tray to run from hard drive, it is not a backup.


DVD2XBOX is NO way a part of Microsoft. It is a third-party application developed for modded consoles.

Backing up your game is perfectly legal, lots of game developers support it even Microsoft. 

Where does it say this? Source?

[Azzaboi]

Yeah ok I agree...

DVD2XBOX is NO way a part of Microsoft. It is a third-party application developed for modded consoles.

However...
I also said 'Geometry Wars' is no way a part of Microsoft, they ripped off that from Mac (I think they might of even got sued).
Internet Explorer 8 was ripped off from Firefox, etc (FF is pissed off with them when they did that).
They've learnt to please users by ripping off things they already like, seems to be working for them a bit better.
So I'm saying they got the idea from DVD2XBOX and made their own builtin 'copying disc to hdd' application.

If you don't call copying an entire disc to your HD a backup, I don't know what you call it?

Verifying the disc (it's just a check to ensure it's legal) was added in an update, it doesn't actually require the disc when playing (it can be scratched). PCs use serials, activation, etc, to validate it's legal instead normally so don't need the disc.

Source see a few listed above,
look up some offical game update(s) for example...

Warcraft 3 (patch 1.21b)
Wow this patch means the game doesn't need the disc, oh noes Blizzard has gone crazy making people happy not having to fumble around with a well used cd!
http://n4g.com/news/108266/warcraft-iii-frozen-throne-patch-1-21b-released


StarCraft (with or without Broodwar installed) - Offical Patch 1.15.2

Code: [Select]

Starcraft and Brood War Patch Information

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- patch 1.15.2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feature Changes

- StarCraft and StarCraft: BroodWar no longer require the CD while playing the
game. To play without the CD, please follow the following instructions:

- Windows Users:
- Make sure you have "Hide extensions for known types" unchecked under
Explorer Folder Options.
- If you own only StarCraft, copy "INSTALL.EXE" from the StarCraft CD to
your StarCraft folder and rename it to "StarCraft.mpq".
- If you own StarCraft: Brood War, copy "INSTALL.EXE" from the StarCraft:
Brood War CD to your StarCraft folder and rename it to "BroodWar.mpq".

- Mac users:
- If you own only StarCraft, copy "StarCraft Archive" from the StarCraft CD
to your StarCraft folder.
- If you own StarCraft: Brood War, copy "Brood War Archive" from the
StarCraft: Brood War CD to your StarCraft folder.


Microsoft Halo 1.08 Official No-CD Patch Released!
http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halopc/patch/halopc108patch.exe


or how about Ubisoft stealing a third party crack to fix their own game?
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26498099


I could probably find a few thousand if I was bothered...

Lot of users suffered from copy protection related problems or scratched discs, etc. The irony is they are all the legal users.

[BC_Programmer]

If MS hasn't created and released windows we'd all be using Norton commander and/or Desqview.

Something to think about.

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

I'm going to back up my Halo 2 PC game by installing it to my computer.

[CBMatt]

BC touched on a few of these things, so there might be a few repeats...

I don't own an xbox, but my friends do. I at least still know legal rights...

Which means you are trying to argue about something with which you have no experience.  So far, you have not proven that you understand legal rights.

Most software/game companies allow backups of their disc to 'safeguard them from loss or scratches', some don't (this is written on their copyright statement or the disc itself). It is the same for PC games as well as console games.

No, most do not.  Some do, but most don't.  But it doesn't matter because you would have to modify the Xbox 360 anyway, which is against the ToS.

However NO/CD cracks are legal if you own the game and even some game developers release them for people to use.

Some companies do indeed release them.  That doesn't make all cracks legal; only the official ones.

Xbox is well known to scratch the disc like crazy if slightly bumped or moved with the disc still in the drive.
Microsoft has a 'money making scheme' ... oh i mean a 'disc replacement program' costing $20 per extra disc copy of a few of the games (not allowed to be copyed by the owner) and sent by post.

Like you said, you don't own a console...otherwise, you might realize that this is an overexaggeration.  Most consoles don't have this issue at all; those that do are old models and it definitely requires more than a slight bump or simply moving the console.

Xbox 360 also has disc copying software provided. This is legal and even supported by / offically published by Microsoft. It copies the game to the HDD of the Xbox 360 to play without the disc.

Wrong, it is not disc-copying software.  The 360 allows you to install a game like you would on the PC.  The disc is still required.

Look it up before you go on a rant.

I have been a gamer since the NES, I write for gaming publications, and I have contacts with people at all of the major companies (Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, 2K, THQ, etc.).  I don't know everything, but I am not at all unfamiliar with this subject.

My friend just messaged back:
Download the "DVD2XBOX" software onto your Xbox 360 console from Xbox Live and it appears under applications on the dashboard.
You should make sure your Xbox hard drive has plenty of free space before doing this.

Funny, I found that exact quote on several sites.  Either your "friend" is lying or "he" simply doesn't know what he's talking about.  It is a program that is packaged along with a certain mod.  This is not a legal program and is not supported by Microsoft, so it certainly cannot be downloaded from Live.  Also, this isn't even for the Xbox 360; it was for the original Xbox.

NOTE: Just because something is on eHow, that doesn't mean it works.

The older xbox360 games such as Halo 3 and such are not optimized for harddrive install and will run slower.

Oblivion installed to the harddrive has RIDICULOUSLY faster loading times as with Left 4 Dead games and Modern Warfare games, etc.

So, older games like Halo 3 run slower, but a game even older than that runs much faster?  Your statements are contradictory.  They are also false.  It sounds like you are getting a lot of your info from this page:
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-619456.html

Keep in mind that most of those people don't actually know what they are talking about.  For the record, regardless of the game, the speed increase is negligible and most loading times will improve by only a few seconds.  Some of the newest games are starting to beat these times, but there is not a huge difference yet.

Microsoft's 'Install To Hard Drive' feature is the new backup feature!

Except that it doesn't backup your games.  You don't actually know the difference between a backup and an install, do you?

DVD2XBOX was the modded original version of this (third party), before Microsoft decided to allow it and make their own.

You have never used DVD2XBOX, so you don't realize that it is very different from the installation feature.  But it doesn't matter anyway because it has nothing to do with the 360.

Backing up your game is perfectly legal, lots of game developers support it even Microsoft. 

You would be the worst game show contentast ever.  It is not perfectly legal and Microsoft absolutely does not support backups.  Their ToS explicitly states that they do not support them.

I also said 'Geometry Wars' is no way a part of Microsoft, they ripped off that from Mac (I think they might of even got sued).

You're right, Geometry Wars is in no way part of Microsoft.  That's why they were never sued.  Can't exactly be sued for something you had no part in.  Geometry Wars was created by Bizarre Creations and they weren't sued either.  What in the world are you even talking about?

So I'm saying they got the idea from DVD2XBOX and made their own builtin 'copying disc to hdd' application.

Yes, because PC's have never allowed you to install games.  DVD2XBOX invented it.  Good catch.

If you don't call copying an entire disc to your HD a backup, I don't know what you call it?

Seriously, how have you lasted this long on a computer help forum?

Verifying the disc (it's just a check to ensure it's legal) was added in an update

No, it wasn't.  Verification has always been part of the disc installation.





Most of what you have said here is wildly incorrect and, frankly, a bit idiotic.

Excuse me while I quote this again...

Look it up before you go on a rant.

I don't have to "look it up" as I have loads of first-hand experience.  The problem with simply looking it up is that your head gets filled with false information found by random postings on the internet.  This is obviously a topic you know nothing about and the discussion would greatly benefit if you would kindly step aside.

[Azzaboi]

You can twist my words and reinterpet them, but...

According to the law Copyright And Rights Regulations Act (CRRA), copying games as backup proposes is totally legal. What is the illegal thing is profiting from copying games. You can copy games for personal usage but you can't profit, share, modify or sell your copy to other. If you are to sell or get rid of the original disc, you must also destroy the backup copy.

In a nutshell - you may legally make a copy of your CD for personal backup if you were the one who bought (and still own) the original.

Computer games users enjoy a special privilege under the existing copyright law. According to Section 50(A) of the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act, legal purchasers of computer games are explicitly permitted to make a backup copy of their purchase.

Also note: If a disc has some form of anti-copy protection, it is a criminal offence to either circumvent that protection yourself, or to give anyone else any device or piece of information which will enable them to do so. You can't break or bypass verification / activations cracks, which is where the illegal issues of pirating is covered.

This section of the law has NOT been changed by the CRRA and still remains in effect.

[SilentAssasin64]

<snip>

Also note: If a disc has some form of anti-copy protection, it is a criminal offence to either circumvent that protection yourself, or to give anyone else any device or piece of information which will enable them to do so. You can't break or bypass verification / activations cracks, which is where the illegal issues of pirating is covered.

This section of the law has NOT been changed by the CRRA and still remains in effect.
<snip>

Not entirely true.  See here for a list of 6 circumstances where bypassing anti-copy protection is legal.

[CBMatt]

You can twist my words and reinterpet them, but...

I did not twist your words.  I quoted them verbatim and explained why you were oh-so wrong.  Or rather, your sources are wrong...it has already been established that you are not familiar with the topic at hand.

According to the law Copyright And Rights Regulations Act (CRRA), copying games as backup proposes is totally legal. What is the illegal thing is profiting from copying games. You can copy games for personal usage but you can't profit, share, modify or sell your copy to other. If you are to sell or get rid of the original disc, you must also destroy the backup copy.

All you do is copy/paste your responses without doing any actual research.  First of all, the CRRA still states that it is illegal to modify console hardware and if you actually read the amendment instead of simply quoting PC Magazine, you will see that there are still restrictions when it comes to making backups.  But none of this really matters because the CRRA is under UK law and this is a US web site, which means we operate under US law, so the CRRA is completely meaningless here.  If something is considered illegal in the US, it is also considered illegal on this web site.

[Azzaboi]

@SilentAssasin64 - Thanks for the correction.

@CBMatt -
I agreed that the modding and/or modify of hardware is not allowed.
I was saying software backups are fine and even some no/cd patchs are allowed.

I forgot that this site only supports US (who only care about US) and laws maybe different in other countries. My bad I forgot they must have a 'fake' sense of freedom. I have no idea how your cybercafes / netcafe run legal then? They all should be shutdown or I'm really curious to understand the silly loophole, or maybe they just give a collection of discs to each user with the label please return after use, thanks! Over here they dump multiple games to the hard drive many without the use of the disc or using a cloned ISO backup copy (and just multiple licensing). We are allow to run a number of games by license and not just by the stupid disc - they stay nicely stacked on the wall as a pretty display inside their box.

That is what is all so confusing my little brain?

Oh and what is a verbatim, isn't that a disc for burning information onto (in which case, yes I do have a photographic memory) or a fail at insulting me? Vermin, varmint or varmit (if that's what you meant) control the world's population. I think your hyper squirrels to be rather cute (specially the red little ones) and without them eatting some of the bird's eggs (being pests as you call it) your have a overrun of more lazy fat pigeons pooing all over the place. It's natures balance.

[kpac]

Oh, how mature.

THIS [legal] AGREEMENT WILL BE GOVERNED BY AND CONSTRUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE STATE OF UTAH .

My bad I forgot they must have a 'fake' sense of freedom.

When you registered on this site you agreed to be bound by the laws governing this website, i.e. US/Utah laws. Do you not agree with them? If not, then by all means leave.

[Azzaboi]

Please read the next sentence following that one to explain why I said it:

My bad I forgot they must have a 'fake' sense of freedom. I have no idea how your cybercafes / netcafe run legal then?

I'm saying US must be breaking their own laws, have a loophole in their rules or clearly not understanding them? That is unless your wrong or netcafe don't actually exisit there legally? I said nothing about agreeing or disagreeing to your law - I just said I must be not understand that part.

[Computer Hope Admin]

This topic has run its course being locked. As was said above we follow copyright laws in the United States since that's were we're based and we don't want to be held liable for any copyright infringements.

[CBMatt]

I agree, this has definitely run its course and is no longer a constructive discussion.  I feel the need, however, to point out that I don't quite understand what role an internet café plays in a duscussion about video games or copyright laws (nor is there any reason why it should be illegal).  This whole thing has become quite convoluted and it is best that the topic has been locked.  Now, moving on...