DRIVER UPDATE GIZMO'S

[Allan]

Oh, okay - if by "disk cleaner" you are indeed referring to ccleaner and the like, I have to disagree with my learned compatriot Calum and say I think they are worthless. They do absolutely nothing you can't do on your own. And the fact that it has a "registry cleaner" module (as benign as it may be) makes it slightly dangerous, since the "best registry cleaner in the world" (whatever that may be) is totally useless and the worst of breed can render your system unusable.

[Calum]

They do absolutely nothing you can't do on your own.

Very true, and something I mentioned in my post.  I'm just saying they make a boring task much quicker.  CCleaner also has some useful tools built in, like the ability to control startup options, shell and browser extensions, and wipe drives, as well as do secure deletion.  As for the registry cleaner, again, like I said you need to actually read what you're doing rather than just blindly click through, but that applies to anything.

To each their own, and I totally get your point - I'm just saying, for me, a tiny program like CCleaner is worth its weight in gold to save me time, and combines several useful tools into one interface.

[BC_Programmer]

Very true, and something I mentioned in my post.  I'm just saying they make a boring task much quicker.  CCleaner also has some useful tools built in, like the ability to control startup options, shell and browser extensions, and wipe drives, as well as do secure deletion.  As for the registry cleaner, again, like I said you need to actually read what you're doing rather than just blindly click through, but that applies to anything.

To each their own, and I totally get your point - I'm just saying, for me, a tiny program like CCleaner is worth its weight in gold to save me time, and combines several useful tools into one interface.

CCleaner doesn't really offer you anything that you cannot get from Disk Cleanup, though.

[Calum]

CCleaner doesn't really offer you anything that you cannot get from Disk Cleanup, though.

Not to argue for the sake of arguing, but yes, it does.
Disk Cleanup doesn't do secure file deletion, drive wiping, browser/explorer extension control, startup control, for a start - those aren't perhaps "core features" of CCleaner, as it's billed as a disk cleanup utility, but they are nevertheless useful features it provides.  As for the actual cleanup side of things, it cleans far more junk files than Disk Cleanup does.  Examples are the Windows Update leftover setup files in XP, alternate browser temporary files rather than just IE (does Disk Cleanup do this?  If so, ignore that), cookie deletion (and selective cookie deletion which is also very handy), DNS and font caches, and temp files from programs like Steam, Java, Flash, VLC, MSE, and literally anything else via the use of an ini file.

So, no, nothing I couldn't do myself, but far less time consuming.  Not all of the above are incredibly useful, or likely to gain back immense amounts of disk space, I'll grant that.  I don't mean to sound like a shill for Piriform, I just find CCleaner a very useful tool.

[BC_Programmer]

Not to argue for the sake of arguing, but yes, it does.

True, but none of it is really cleaning, it's the satellite features. That isn't to say they cannot be useful, I'm primarily saying that- unlike the cleanup capability itself- they aren't really something you would do for regular, routine maintenance tasks. ( cannot find anything for drive wiping, browser/explorer extension controls, or startup items in cCleaner, though I'm a few updates behind).

it cleans far more junk files than Disk Cleanup does.  Examples are the Windows Update leftover setup files in XP, alternate browser temporary files rather than just IE (does Disk Cleanup do this?  If so, ignore that), cookie deletion (and selective cookie deletion which is also very handy), DNS and font caches, and temp files from programs like Steam, Java, Flash, VLC, MSE

Disk cleanup cleans up any temporary files that those programs place in the temporary location. I'm not certain of Firefox or Chrome put them in the temp folder or not (their temp files, that is). Most applications do. Cleanmgr (Disk cleanup) has a module for cleaning up old update files as well as service pack backups.


It definitely appears to clean-up more, but I've also had it delete useful stuff like MRU's (recent file lists) and other configuration data for some applications too.

On the bright side it's not a Driver Update tool.

[Calum]

True, but none of it is really cleaning, it's the satellite features. That isn't to say they cannot be useful, I'm primarily saying that- unlike the cleanup capability itself- they aren't really something you would do for regular, routine maintenance tasks. ( cannot find anything for drive wiping, browser/explorer extension controls, or startup items in cCleaner, though I'm a few updates behind).

How many is a few updates? :p I know those have been in for a LONG time...the tabs across the top there let you control browser extensions, scheduled tasls, and the context menu - that's what I meant, rather than explorer extensions, I worded it wrong.  I'm not saying they are routine maintenance, but still useful to have.

Disk cleanup cleans up any temporary files that those programs place in the temporary location. I'm not certain of Firefox or Chrome put them in the temp folder or not (their temp files, that is). Most applications do. Cleanmgr (Disk cleanup) has a module for cleaning up old update files as well as service pack backups.

Admittedly I haven't used Disk Cleanup in a while, mainly because it takes a lot longer to display the amount of junk it will remove, and to do its job, than CCleaner.  Where does Disk Cleanup hide the option to remove old update setup files, by the way?  I've never seen that option.

I've just done a scan with Disk Cleanup and with CCleaner, and they both give an estimate of 270MB to be cleaned - however, CCleaner isn't taking into account Firefox because it's open, and my FF cache is currently around 150MB, so it doesn't appear that Firefox does store its temp data in an area Disk Cleanup would normally check.  So, I guess what I'm saying is sure, Disk Cleanup does a fine job of cleaning the system temp files, and IE's temp files, but it doesn't have any extensibility, so it can't clean up most other applications, whereas CCleaner can be extended with the winapp.ini file to cover much more, and also covers more out of the box.

It definitely appears to clean-up more, but I've also had it delete useful stuff like MRU's (recent file lists) and other configuration data for some applications too.

As I said, it's a case of checking the right boxes.  If you want it to clean up that stuff, it will do.

On the bright side it's not a Driver Update tool.

Always a plus!


Perhaps what I'll do, to give this a proper test, is install all my usual software and things on my new PC, and sue it for, what, 4 weeks or so, before comparing CCleaner and Disk Cleanup.  I'll run CCleaner with its default options, then with everything checked that I would normally check, and then with an updated winapp.ini to recognise all my programs.  Does that sound like a decent test?  That should help satisfy my own curiosity to see how the two compare in terms of just how much junk they will clear from a system., leaving aside additional features.

[BC_Programmer]

How many is a few updates? :p I know those have been in for a LONG time...the tabs across the top there let you control browser extensions, scheduled tasls, and the context menu - that's what I meant, rather than explorer extensions, I worded it wrong.  I'm not saying they are routine maintenance, but still useful to have.

Mine is apparently version 2.29; that's why I didn't see those features. That's what I suspected. Mine has Startup, Uninstall, and System Restore.

Admittedly I haven't used Disk Cleanup in a while, mainly because it takes a lot longer to display the amount of junk it will remove, and to do its job, than CCleaner.  Where does Disk Cleanup hide the option to remove old update setup files, by the way?  I've never seen that option.

it seems that it only shows items that have elements that can be cleaned; you can run cleanmgr /sageset:99 to force it to show all the possible cleanup modules, regardless of permissions or whether there aren't any files to cleanup in that category.

but it doesn't have any extensibility

Actually! This is false. Interestingly, Disk Cleanup has actually had an extendable interface pretty much since the earliest versions, surprisingly enough. That is, Applications can add new "modules" and different segments that can be cleaned up. So, for example, Firefox <could> implement a Disk Cleanup module for cleaning up it's temporary files (or, heck, anybody else could). These interfaces are mention by this sexy beast in this blog post.

Though sadly so few applications have actually added cleanup handlers, it's a bit of a shame.

so it can't clean up most other applications, whereas CCleaner can be extended with the winapp.ini file to cover much more, and also covers more out of the box.

Disk cleanup could be made to read those types of INI files as well. Of course it doesn't have anything like that as-is.

Perhaps what I'll do, to give this a proper test, is install all my usual software and things on my new PC, and sue it for, what, 4 weeks or so, before comparing CCleaner and Disk Cleanup.  I'll run CCleaner with its default options, then with everything checked that I would normally check, and then with an updated winapp.ini to recognise all my programs.  Does that sound like a decent test?  That should help satisfy my own curiosity to see how the two compare in terms of just how much junk they will clear from a system., leaving aside additional features.

Well just starting them up here and there were discrepancies of a few hundred MB. I think I ended up unchecking so many cleanup options to preserve configuration settings that I just ended up not really doing anything that Disk Cleanup doesn't already do.

Arguably, deleting downloaded data files and whatnot (user data) is likely to give a far bigger space boost than any program (usually). No disk cleanup tool can rival a TB of ISO files, after all.

[patio]

I still think fish get tired of seafood all the time...

[Geek-9pm]

I still think fish get tired of seafood all the time...

More research needed. 

[GLOOPS]

I have to say guys' with all respect, what you are saying here flies in the face of a lot of the info that computer magazines dish out!    I subscribe to one called 'Windows 7' and have doe so for a few years now.  I have found the mag entirely informative and the articles therein well done.   There are always some 'gizmo's' recommended by the mag for one purpose or another.  In fact a CD always accompanies each issue, 'chock a block' with all kinds of programs and many are to help sort ones computer out in one way or another! 

So if you fellas' do so little on this front ....well I can only say that I am 'gob smacked'           

[patio]

It's called "advertising"...they get paid for recommendations.
Some however have more scruples than others...
Collectively the regulars here probably do more actual "testing" of apps and products than 10 of those magazines do each year.

[BC_Programmer]

I have to say guys' with all respect, what you are saying here flies in the face of a lot of the info that computer magazines dish out!

Pretty much what Patio said. I've never heard of this Magazine. Is this it?



(I like the part at the top that says to "secure your hard drive by splitting it". Yeah. Sure)

It's unlikely to contain very much of value. It's cover reminds me of "Maximum PC" and similar magazines, and it probably follows the same style. Many articles in these sorts of magazines contain very little original research and are either shilling a product for sponsorship revenue or are simply repeating what can at best be described as myths- which of course contributes to the spread of misinformation. "Jargon Free" could be taken as a guarantee that they are also "useful information free". You cannot learn about accounting without learning terms like budget and ledger, IT is no different.

I subscribe to one called 'Windows 7' and have doe so for a few years now.  I have found the mag entirely informative and the articles therein well done.

You also call Utility software "gizmo's". I'd put you in their target readership. Informative Magazines don't need flashy covers. MSDN and TechNet magazines are fully informative and most articles therein contain a lot of original material, research, and so forth, as well as providing any relevant information for them to be reproducible. Their covers are usually quite plain.

There are always some 'gizmo's' recommended by the mag for one purpose or another.

Paid sponsorships. This is the primary way most crappy useless utilities actually get any mindshare. To my recollection this was also how "System Mechanic" got it's start; by a magazine sponsorship from one of these low-quality IT magazines. They included it on the CD and probably had an article that was pretty much just company propaganda and people ate it up.

In fact a CD always accompanies each issue, 'chock a block' with all kinds of programs and many are to help sort ones computer out in one way or another! 

And they are mostly garbage. It's impossible to know if they are recommending a program because they actually find it useful or because the company that makes the product lined their wallets, so it's usually best to disregard. Even valid recommendations come with typically weak reasoning based on anecdotals.

So if you fellas' do so little on this front ....well I can only say that I am 'gob smacked'          

On which front?

[Geek-9pm]

I have  have followed this  with amusement.
Many PC target magazines are dying.
Microsoft knows full well the limitations of the software they n produce. They have laboratories much more sophisticated than what a struggling magazine can support. When there is a great need for improvement, Microsoft evidently does it and gives it free to its customer base.

Often the real issue is the tinkering and experimentation don by the user himself. That includes the careless install of programs that are not well-behaved.

[patio]

I think it's twisted Logic to give all Kudo's to MS...
It has always had limitations and a sore need for 3rd party apps...and always will.

[Salmon Trout]

Could we ditch the plural apostrophes please?