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Author Topic: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out  (Read 10141 times)

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DaveLembke

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Was looking at labor day deals on newegg and this AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk got my attention. I thought that AMD created their own RAMDisk from scratch and was going to buy it to try it out, but first decided to check it out and look to see what google had on it as to if it was good or junk software with problems, since AMD has versions for 4GB, 6GB, 32GB, and 64GB RAMDisk creation.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832385001


To my surprise AMD is promoting software written by DataRam. I have already used the RAMDisk software from DataRam, the free version with a 4GB limitation, and its really sweet in how fast anything in this RAMDisk can Read/Write. But my most powerful system only has 8GB of RAM, so I decided not to buy it because its not a completely different RAMDisk software, its the same as DataRam's RAMDisk, just unlocked or a different version to support creating RAMDisks up to 64GB in size. Had I had a system with more than 64GB of RAM, then it would be a sweet deal, but with only 8GB of RAM, I am going to continue to use the free version with limit of 4GB RAMDisk allocation size a little longer.

Had it been AMD's creation, I probably would have picked it up to check out its features and save it for 4 or 5 years from now when I can afford, as well as make use of a system with greater than 64GB of RAM to allocate a large chunk of it to RAMDisk purpose and have games that load in say 1 second vs 10 seconds etc. *Personally my new build with 8GB RAM has plenty of memory even if a 4GB block of the 8GB is allocated for RAMDisk with just 4GB of DDR3 left for Windows 7 64-bit and games etc. Its too bad that the games that really need the RAMDisk for speed 99% of them wont fit within 4GB so I haven't been able to use my 4GB RAMDisk as much as I would like to for gaming.

AMD's link below

http://www.radeonmemory.com/software_4.0.php

is same software as

http://memory.dataram.com/products-and-services/software/ramdisk

Just with AMD's name (seal of approval) on it.

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 04:45:50 PM »
RAM disks are a waste of RAM.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

patio

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 07:29:54 PM »
+ 1...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2013, 03:18:14 AM »
RAM disks are a waste of RAM.
+ 1...

Couldn't disagree more, personally...Windows does a generally good job of caching reads and writes using RAM, but a RAMdisk goes way beyond that.  Even with a decent SSD, loading files or programs from a RAMdisk at say 8GB/sec speeds is a vast improvement.

AMD has been rebranding the DataRAM package for a little while now, funny how when they started a lot of forums exploded with people talking about how innovative and new it was, then a few days later everyone realised it had been available for years and promptly quietened down heh.

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2013, 04:12:15 AM »
Couldn't disagree more, personally...Windows does a generally good job of caching reads and writes using RAM, but a RAMdisk goes way beyond that.
That's only half of it.

When were RAMDisk's Viable? Back with the XT and Early AT PCs. Most applications used maybe 100K of Conventional Memory. VDISK.SYS could be used to turn part of that memory into a RAM Drive. Floppy's were the vogue and floppies are slow; next was Hard disks which were expensive and though much faster than a floppy still slow. Using a RAM Drive helped remove any I/O bottleneck from the system.

So, what about now?

Well, first, you've got two huge problems. The first is that a RAM drive will always be blank when you create it by definition; and the second is that everything on a RAM drive is lost the second power is cut from the system. No backups, no recovery- they just dribble away. In terms of Running Programs off an SSD, this means that you will usually need to install or at least copy the installation of the program from a hard disk before you run it from the RAM Drive. if you change configuration options, That application better be saving it's configuration onto the hard drive. In fact it ought to be storing most of it's persistent data on the hard drive. The only benefit you get from a RAM drive is that code and data segments load from the Executable and any Libraries it uses, except for Windows Libraries.

You get very little benefit from this.

- When an Executable is loaded, the entire file is not read and mapped into memory at once. A Virtual Address space is reserved and the Executable is memory mapped into the address space. What this means is that pages of virtual memory are allocated, and as code and data is accessed in the executable, that data is read from disk.

The executable data for a game or program is never large enough for this to matter in terms of RAMDrive Access speed.

The only gain would be if the Actual Data that said application loads; for example, levels, textures, etc. from Disk, were on said RAM drive.
Now the problem is two:

First, you need ALL that data to be on the RAM drive. You cannot only put a part of it on there because you would need to move the entire installation folder over. using Crysis as an Example, that's a little under 8GB of Data you would need; which means you would need at least a 8GB RAM Drive. 4GB would be useless, because you couldn't fit the entire installation on it; and if you didn't use a full install, it would be accessing the DVD for that data making the parts you use the RAM drive for entirely offset by the slow Optical Drive access times. Also, Because of the way most games work, you will need to actually Install them to that RAM drive, or at least install them once, make an image of that RAM drive, and restore it each time you start the system.

RAM Drives can only 'properly' be created once, at system startup time. They should be created by a Kernel level startup driver that allocated Physical Memory directly and prevents the rest of the System from ever using it; giving it one large contiguous chunk of RAM to use.

Thing is, Looking at some of the free offerings available for creating RAM Drives, it seems that few of them take this approach; the system total memroy is unchanged, and what these "RAM Drive" programs actually do is perform virtual allocations of memory to create their RAM disk.

What this means is that the RAM pages occupied by the RAM drive are discardable- and can get swapped to the pagefile! That completely defeats the purpose, and basically just turns the RAM Drive into a special superfetch cache that only works for some files and only when you access them on a specific not-real drive letter.

One common usage for RAM drives is to make a RAM drive of some size, and them redirect %TEMP% and %TMP% there. Hooray! Super speedy temporary file access.

Of course, until you install an application that needs to reboot half-way; installers will use the temporary folder to put prerequisite files, then configure the system startup to continue the installation from that temporary directory after rebooting. Of course with a RAM Drive being used for the temporary folder, this doesn't work since those files dribble away when the system reboots. Now you have a sorta half installed program that is in a constant state of limbo because the last satage of installation requirements weren't run. It may or may not work and you may or may not have problems. But in general this is why using %TMP or %TEMP% on a RAM drive would be a bad idea. So that is out.

So returning to the previous note. Let's consider a System that has say 16GB of RAM. Now, for my system, an Upgrade from 8GB to 16GB would cost me around 400$, last I checked; (DDR2 is more expensive than DDR3 these days). DDR3 would be more affordable and for a new build this probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Anyway: RAM Drive Size.

Well, first, what are we going to use it for? For most folks, particularly gaming types, I imagine the aim would be to play games at a faster speed. One could argue for a business case dealing with databases- however, this is unlikely to be a common purpose since the purposes for which databases are usually used don't lend themselves well to the database dissappearing after commited transactions (Besides, most Database systems have a reliable and accurate Memory caching method that prevents data loss while also reducing Disk I/O).

Now we have a problem. Your typical modern game is about 6GB in size. even with a 8GB RAM Drive, we cannot have more than one on the RAM Drive at a time. I just wonder how that would work and how anybody could consider it worth the hassle. If you want to play Crysis, or some other game, it changes from you clicking the Crysis Icon on your desktop to now having to go into your Program Files Folder and copy the installation to the RAM drive, or, equally likely restore the Image you made after installing it to your RAM Drive and run it from there. If you do a direct copy, you might think it's faster but most games have settings that willcontain paths indicating where Data files are; and if you installed to Program Files, that would point at Program files, so even if you moved all the Data to a RAM drive it might still be accessing the source folders. So you would have to uninstall it from your system, install it to your AM drive, and then make a Disk Image of that Game. Then when you want to play it, you restore that image to the RAM drive and play it.

IMO this is a massive hassle, if nothing else. Not to mention you've halved the available memory to every single other application; and that's assuming you used RAMDrive software that did it properly (by reserving the RAM at system boot time and reducing the total physical address space available to the Rest of the Kernel). Most are user-mode drivers that use Virtual Allocations, which basically just adds another layer of indirection and causes the same thing you would expect, which is disk swapping to and from the pagefile as a result of pages being discarded.

If somebody is serious about using a RAM Drive, they shouldn't be using a software solution anyway; there are various hardware peripherals that let you install DDR2 and DDR3 RAM sticks into them and then connect and use those devices as standard SATA hard disks. This could be useful, but I still don't see how they could be much use. Unless you get a lot of Memory you are still going to just end up swapping disk images as you use different software. And if you use the RAM disk for storing User data- more fool you. I see it suggested often that a way to speed up, in particular, Minecraft, is to move the Worlds and user data to a RAM Drive. Which makes sense, since the biggest Performance bottleneck is the I/O from loading and saving the data from the Game World. Of course now you need to either remember or schedule some system to prevent that data from being lost. Power goes out after you finished building that giant Creeper Statue? Oh well, too bad. I've also seen it recommended for Photoshop work, which I find equally hard to fathom: Do you really want hours upon hours of work to create those hundred+ gigabyte files and data to simply dribble away because you wanted to load them in 2 seconds instead of 10? This is especially something I don't understand since sometimes dealing with graphics is not something where you can just repeat a series of steps and get the same result; you tweak and mess about with filters and various tools aiming for a specific look, but you don't keep a meticulous record of every single step you took to arrive at it, so if that finished Poster is lost due to a power outage, it will be gone forever and you can never make it again- you can try, but the result will never be the same thing. It might be better- but I hardly see that as something that would make RAM Disks seem appealing. "Causes you to lose hours of work and do the same thing twice- but the second time you got practice so it's usually better... ORDER NOW!"

Doing some googling on the subject and the sheer amount of complete misunderstandings of how Windows manages memory is mind boggling. I like the one that says Windows only ever uses the Pagefile when the system is running low on RAM. The pagefile is not swap space; it's used for discardable memory pages, Memory does not stay allocated until that same space is needed, if you leave an application in the background and do nothing, eventually it's memory pages will be swapped to the pagefile, even though nothing else required that memory.

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Even with a decent SSD, loading files or programs from a RAMdisk at say 8GB/sec speeds is a vast improvement.
Except you need to copy those files and programs to the RAM disk and back off of it, and your RAM Disk is going to be smaller than your Hard disk or SSD, so it will always be a subset.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Calum

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2013, 04:30:20 AM »
Well, first, you've got two huge problems. The first is that a RAM drive will always be blank when you create it by definition; and the second is that everything on a RAM drive is lost the second power is cut from the system. No backups, no recovery- they just dribble away. In terms of Running Programs off an SSD, this means that you will usually need to install or at least copy the installation of the program from a hard disk before you run it from the RAM Drive. if you change configuration options, That application better be saving it's configuration onto the hard drive. In fact it ought to be storing most of it's persistent data on the hard drive. The only benefit you get from a RAM drive is that code and data segments load from the Executable and any Libraries it uses, except for Windows Libraries.

OK, so if you have something to copy data to the RAMdisk, work on it, then move it back...problem solved?  Steam Mover creates symlinks to the folders it moves, so I could move a game to the RAM disk, play it, all the temporary data and anything contained within that folder is saved to the RAM disk, then when I'm finished with it, Steam Mover can move it back.

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You get very little benefit from this.

Apart from the massive read and write speeds.  Fair enough, you still have to do one read and one write from and to the normal storage medium, but in between those, you have huge speeds.

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The only gain would be if the Actual Data that said application loads; for example, levels, textures, etc. from Disk, were on said RAM drive.

This is what would make sense - the entire game or program folder loaded into the drive, rather than bits and pieces.

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First, you need ALL that data to be on the RAM drive. You cannot only put a part of it on there because you would need to move the entire installation folder over. using Crysis as an Example, that's a little under 8GB of Data you would need; which means you would need at least a 8GB RAM Drive. 4GB would be useless, because you couldn't fit the entire installation on it; and if you didn't use a full install, it would be accessing the DVD for that data making the parts you use the RAM drive for entirely offset by the slow Optical Drive access times. Also, Because of the way most games work, you will need to actually Install them to that RAM drive, or at least install them once, make an image of that RAM drive, and restore it each time you start the system.

Again, Steam Mover resolves this, you can install the program anywhere you like, use Steam Mover to move it, then move it back when you don't want it on the RAM disk any longer.  Also, several RAM disk suites let you save the RAMdisk to an image file, and restore it, automatically.  It'll load the image at startup and save on shutdown, some even write the changes as you go along and can do incremental images, so it's fully automated.  Again, yes, you do have to deal with one read and one write.

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What this means is that the RAM pages occupied by the RAM drive are discardable- and can get swapped to the pagefile! That completely defeats the purpose, and basically just turns the RAM Drive into a special superfetch cache that only works for some files and only when you access them on a specific not-real drive letter.

Yeah, that would be pretty stupid, I agree.

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One common usage for RAM drives is to make a RAM drive of some size, and them redirect %TEMP% and %TMP% there. Hooray! Super speedy temporary file access.

I wouldn't do this for the reason you mentioned directly afterwards.  Browser cache on a RAM disk is another thing, it's not something I've done but some people say it can make things faster.  I don't see the point myself.

As you say, the size is a concern.  I'm not saying a RAM disk makes sense for everyone, but if you have, say, 24GB of RAM, which isn't an unreasonable amount, what are you going to use it for?  Why not dedicate 12GB to a RAM disk, enough to store most games or maybe even a couple, and still have more RAM than you'd ever realistically use for anything else?  16GB is fairly common nowadays, halving that to 8GB gives you a RAM disk big enough for a lot of games and 8GB left over, which is plenty.

I used to run a RAM disk when I had 16GB of RAM.  I played a lot of Battlefield Bad Company 2, which had a folder around 11GB in size.  4-5GB was adequate to run the OS, background programs, and the game, which by the way loaded levels in a matter of a few seconds rather than 30-40 seconds.  I had the software save an image at shutdown and load the image at startup, and I sued Steam Mover to move the game back to its original install directory when I fancied playing something else.

Again, I'm not saying a RAM disk is essential or even useful to everybody, I'm just saying that in some situations, with the appropriate software and if you understand the potential drawbacks, they can be very useful indeed.  I do intend to run a RAM disk when I get my desktop up and running.

BC_Programmer


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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2013, 05:14:25 AM »
OK, so if you have something to copy data to the RAMdisk, work on it, then move it back...problem solved?
Forget the move it back? Data is gone forever.

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Steam Mover creates symlinks to the folders it moves, so I could move a game to the RAM disk, play it, all the temporary data and anything contained within that folder is saved to the RAM disk, then when I'm finished with it, Steam Mover can move it back.
Games should never store data in their program folders; Moving it back shouldn't be required, they should be using data elsewhere. Then again I don't know how steam does it. Maybe it does store savefiles or whatever in with the program/game itself. Also from what I can tell, if you forget to move it back, all that data will be gone, simply because this isn't what Steam Mover is for. (What I mean is, when you Move it, you move the data and everything in it to the RAM Drive, then steam mover replaces the original folders/files with Symbolic links to the new location. Obviously, it's not designed for where the new location is more volatile than a televangelist at comic con- if that new location (eg. the RAM drive) happens to go away, all the data goes with it. I don't know about anybody else but I wouldn't even bother with that sort of risk. Sure, you should remember, but people forget things. Losing the game and every single piece of saved data related to it is a bit of a harsh punishment for such a minor transgression.

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Apart from the massive read and write speeds.  Fair enough, you still have to do one read and one write from and to the normal storage medium, but in between those, you have huge speeds.
And if you forget the write, do not collect 200$.

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This is what would make sense - the entire game or program folder loaded into the drive, rather than bits and pieces.
Thus the Size consideration. Games are getting larger and larger- you would need to literally install them to the RAM drive (for most configurations) and then for posterity take an image of the RAM drive. Ideally such a scenario would not require many changes to the RAM drive since savefiles and whatnot would be in %APPDATA%, and it would just be used for game data. Still seems like a massive hassle to faff about with different Image files. At least this way you would be saved from losing Game Data (since what is actually put on the RAM Drive is really just the static unchanging game files).

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Again, Steam Mover resolves this, you can install the program anywhere you like, use Steam Mover to move it, then move it back when you don't want it on the RAM disk any longer.
Addressed above. If you forget to move it back before a reboot, have a forced reboot (windows update, power loss)... oops. Goodbye Program. it's gone forever, leaving in it's original location symlinks to a now blank RAM Drive. For Steam Mover I think Steam stores save files and stuff in the same folder so those would be gone as well.

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Also, several RAM disk suites let you save the RAMdisk to an image file, and restore it, automatically.  It'll load the image at startup and save on shutdown, some even write the changes as you go along and can do incremental images, so it's fully automated.  Again, yes, you do have to deal with one read and one write.
I would not trust such a setup, at least not for any data that mattered. If I was to use a RAM Drive for something it would be for Data files that do not matter, and only as a copy; eg, Game Data files, but not Game save data, profiles, etc. Sure, it's automatic on startup and shutdown- but not every shutdown is going to be orderly. Power get's cut, power cords get tripped over, circuits break, etc. This solution would work a LOT better than "Steam Mover" which as it's name implies is for moving Steam Games and data to another Drive. It moves the data to the other drive, leaving in it's previous location symbolic links to the new location. If the contents aren't restored or moved back- say you forget, power goes out, power get's tripped, the dog licks the reset button, etc. It's all gone.

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Why not dedicate 12GB to a RAM disk, enough to store most games or maybe even a couple, and still have more RAM than you'd ever realistically use for anything else?  16GB is fairly common nowadays, halving that to 8GB gives you a RAM disk big enough for a lot of games and 8GB left over, which is plenty.
Well, personally, I don't play nearly enough games to ever consider that. If I had 24GB of Memory, I wouldn't use a RAM Drive- I'd let superfetch do it's thing. In particular, since my System is usually on for long periods, Superfetch will simply be able to precache a crapton of Data. TBH it's quite amazing the speed improvement when it becomes familiar with the applications and data you access frequently. It's noticable with 8GB and with more memory it just means that it will be able to cache even more. Superfetch is essentially a RAM drive that fills based on your usage habits, and since it's fundamentally a FS Cache you don't need any fancy symbolic links or anything.

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I used to run a RAM disk when I had 16GB of RAM.  I played a lot of Battlefield Bad Company 2, which had a folder around 11GB in size.  4-5GB was adequate to run the OS, background programs, and the game, which by the way loaded levels in a matter of a few seconds rather than 30-40 seconds.  I had the software save an image at shutdown and load the image at startup, and I sued Steam Mover to move the game back to its original install directory when I fancied playing something else.

So, really it boils down to: if you have more money than you know what to do with and primarily use the computer to play games, and don't mind installing a bunch of software and setting it up properly, RAM drives let you load levels faster. I guess that could be useful for some folks. Personally I use my system for so many different tasks; one minute I might be dealing with a remote postgres database, the next I'm using iReport to create Jasper reports; the next I'm usign Visual Studio, the next I'm running Eclipse or Netbeans; and the next I might have launched Just Cause. I "only" have 8GB of RAM but I've found superfetch to be quite keen on what I'm doing. For example, whenever I use Jasper Reports, I always have netbeans open; so if I launch iReport, after it's loaded and the system idles, I can actually watch (with say Process Monitor) superfetch start precaching Netbeans, if it hasn't already. It knows too much- it's quite cool IMO. For my use case there would be no way to properly make use of a RAM drive, and using a RAM drive- even if I had more memory- would simply deprive SF from Memory it can use to read ahead and try to guess what I need next based on usage patterns. Even if I did have a use case that was amicable to a RAM drive, there are too many caveats, IMO.

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Again, I'm not saying a RAM disk is essential or even useful to everybody, I'm just saying that in some situations, with the appropriate software and if you understand the potential drawbacks, they can be very useful indeed.  I do intend to run a RAM disk when I get my desktop up and running.

Well, let me think about it this way. (Though my PC is older so the components are more expensive and thus the comparison may not be entirely valid).

Let's postulate, that I had some workflow/usage that could benefit from an 8GB RAM Drive. Fair enough.

so, I need another 8GB; this would mean spending around 400 dollars to upgrade my memory. In terms of trade-off, I don't think ANY possible advantage, even if my use case was somehow perfect for an 8GB RAM Drive, could ever validate spending 400 Dollars in such a way; especially since I could replace my system drive with an SSD for maybe half the cost and probably see even more substantial gains in overall performance.

I'm just of the mind that if you pay some sum of money on RAM, you ought to be using it as RAM, rather than repurposing it for something else. Especially considering that you could have spend that remainder on some other more substantial upgrade; eg. instead of doubling your RAM to use a RAM Drive, you could instead simply buy a faster HDD/SDD and get more general performance gains across the board, rather than with the specific software you place on the RAM drive. And that is ignoring some the implications of RAM being volatile, too.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 01:34:56 PM »
Thanks for info on this... never heard of Steam Mover so going to check that out.

As far as the RAMDisk that I have used from Dataram the free version with the 4GB limitation, whatever you have for files in your RAMDisk is stored to the C:\ HDD or SSD as an image, and when the system boots, it does cause a slower boot to the desktop as it is reading from the drive and pushing this image to RAMDisk. Shutdowns are also slower as it has to write all that data to the image.

Personally the only application I have found so far for this RAMDisk software is when it comes to my one server that runs mySQL Database and when I run scripts on it that perform many read/writes which use to cause the HDD to run constantly for about 3 minutes building off the information that it is feeding from the info from the database performing calculations within the script and repopulating other tables from for a report, with the RAMDisk, each time this process is run it is completed in around 25 seconds on a Core 2 Duo, and would be faster on newer hardware, but 25 seconds is sweet vs 3 minutes of HDD read/write solid LED lit excessive HDD access in which you can hear a light chatter noise.

The one time read and write at start up and shutdown add only 15 seconds to the start up or shutdown for 30 seconds of HDD access to build and save per power up, which is still a savings of about 2:30 of HDD activity each time the scripts are run.

Note: Just checked out the Steam Mover: http://lifehacker.com/5626931/steam-mover-relocates-applications-to-free-up-space-on-your-primary-drive and its too bad it doesnt work with XP  :( as for I have a netbook with a small 60GB SSD and could plug in a flash drive similar to this 32GB flash drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K0F13305 to move some software that is infrequently used to the USB Flash off of the SSD so that other applications that are used more often can be installed to the SSD which has limited capacity of 60GB. * I suppose with SSD's dropping in price I can get a 128GB anyways and not even have to do this redirection within the next 12 months or so.

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2013, 02:47:36 PM »
As far as the RAMDisk that I have used from Dataram the free version with the 4GB limitation, whatever you have for files in your RAMDisk is stored to the C:\ HDD or SSD as an image, and when the system boots, it does cause a slower boot to the desktop as it is reading from the drive and pushing this image to RAMDisk. Shutdowns are also slower as it has to write all that data to the image.
TBH I didn't really think of those as being much of a detriment to the feature. My 'issue' if you can call it that is more rooted in the volatility of the resulting Drive. What I mean is. At least for me, my system has very long uptimes- it's sitting at 20 days currently, for example- so if the RAM drive is only "saved" to the disk at shutdown, if I was to use that RAM drive for current tasks, work, etc. If something happened and the power went off, there would be no recovering it. That'a why I went with the only one I could really justify in my arguments, which was having a RAM drive to store "static" data, such as game levels, textures and other files, the type of stuff that you don't change through gameplay but for which faster load times speed things up. Even then I cannot personally justify it; it seems to me that any purpose for which I could use a RAMDisk- even if I was to assume I had 16GB, (which I don't and given the 400$ price tag I don't see that as a good investment when I could put that towards a new build), I think it would be much more performant to simply let the system use that extra RAM. I don't game heavily, of course. I mean, if somebody plays a game a lot, and they do it frequently, I could maybe see that having a positive impact (of course if they are spending that much time playing games maybe their time isn't very valuable, :P I kid, I kid).

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Personally the only application I have found so far for this RAMDisk software is when it comes to my one server that runs mySQL Database and when I run scripts on it that perform many read/writes which use to cause the HDD to run constantly for about 3 minutes building off the information that it is feeding from the info from the database performing calculations within the script and repopulating other tables from for a report, with the RAMDisk, each time this process is run it is completed in around 25 seconds on a Core 2 Duo, and would be faster on newer hardware, but 25 seconds is sweet vs 3 minutes of HDD read/write solid LED lit excessive HDD access in which you can hear a light chatter noise.
if you ask me the problem you solve with the RAM disk is probably that your queries are performing Cross Joins. I brought my workplace PostGres DB Server to it's knees while working out the query to use for a particularly complex report- my inexperience with advanced SQL caused me to perform Cross Joins across 4 tables containing several million records each, which basically crashed the server. (it didn't help that when I said "hmm this query seems to take a long time to process" in skype to a co-worker they ran the query in pgAdmin as well "so it does"). We worked throguh the SQL and ended up with an equivalent query that did what we wanted and finished in a few seconds.

I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 05:37:57 PM »
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if you ask me the problem you solve with the RAM disk is probably that your queries are performing Cross Joins. I brought my workplace PostGres DB Server to it's knees while working out the query to use for a particularly complex report- my inexperience with advanced SQL caused me to perform Cross Joins across 4 tables containing several million records each, which basically crashed the server. (it didn't help that when I said "hmm this query seems to take a long time to process" in skype to a co-worker they ran the query in pgAdmin as well "so it does"). We worked throguh the SQL and ended up with an equivalent query that did what we wanted and finished in a few seconds.

I haven't looked into this, but it is possible that this may be exactly what I have going on. For the fact that I might run this query script once a week etc, there is no sense in trying to perfect it, but if I write up a new one, I will probably post it here in the forum to see if I could perfect it better. But this one is not worth sharing and perfecting given its infrequent use.

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Re: AMD Radeon 64GB RAMDisk ..Too bad its not their creation to try out
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2013, 07:32:11 AM »
I don't really have time to reply to your post BC, well written though it is.
You do have some valid points, just wanted to add that "Steam Mover" is not something exclusive to Steam, it's simply an automated way of moving files or folders and creating symlinks, so that they are seen as still being in the same place.  It was originally developed to move Steam games as Steam at that time did not allow you to install games anywhere but to your Steam folder.  I've found it handy for a number of other things, moving folders to and from a RAM disk was just one.
You're quite right that if one forgot the write, or there was an unexpected shutdown or something, one would lose the data in the RAM drive.  For me, that's not a big deal, I'd just download the game again, and like you said - save data should be saved elsewhere, so I wouldn't lose progress, plus a lot of games save their save data to the cloud anyway, so that's even less of a problem.  A valid point though, and something I never had to deal with as my system didn't crash, unexpectedly reboot or shut down on me while I was running the setup described above, and my system would stay on 24/7 for folding@home anyway.
I can't say Superfetch has ever seemed to do much for me, not to the point of noticeable speeding up program start times.
Memory is a lot more expensive nowadays than it was when I was messing with RAM drives and indeed when I bought the RAM I have set aside for my desktop, so I agree that buying RAM just for a RAM drive doesn't make sense, I wouldn't have suggested anyone do that with the price of RAM right now.  Back then, 24GB cost me around £90, and SSDs were still silly money so I only had an 80GB.  Nowadays, fast 128GB drives are around £90, a fast 256GB would be around £120, so your money is better spent there than spending £60 on 8GB of RAM or something like that.  That's the nature of the hardware market, the best place to spend your money changes based not only on your needs but on the rising and falling prices of components too.
However, going a little more into the speed differences between, say, a HDD, an SSD, a faster SSD, and RAM - they're really not comparable.  Any SSD, excluding the first generation tremendously slow drives like the JMicron controllers which had massive stuttering issues, will wipe the floor with any HDD.  RAM is that much faster again.  A faster SSD is unlikely to be a worthy upgrade, not many people will see the difference between, say, an OCZ Vertex (one of the first generation of decent SSDs) and a brand new Samsung 840 Pro.
One thing a RAM drive was excellent for - posting benchmarks and greatly confusing people ;)

Anyhow, I'll have to leave it at that for now, just wanted to let you know I definitely understand where you're coming from, and that I agree for the most part, definitely agree that RAM drives aren't for the casual user and of course, not to be sued for storing anything important on.  I do still see a use for them for non important data though in some cases, and intend to run one when I have my desktop together.