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Author Topic: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.  (Read 7864 times)

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Geek-9pm

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Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
« on: July 27, 2015, 11:26:52 PM »
Full title is:
Windows 10 Automatic Updates Causing Serious New Problems
Story from Forbes
Updates crash Windows Explorer.
Quote
For the layman, Windows Explorer is not to be confused with the Internet Explorer web browser. Windows Explorer is the core file navigation system fundamental to using Windows. Without it you’re in big trouble.
...
A fix coming real soon. 8)

BC_Programmer


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Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 11:34:11 PM »
They've "Fixed" Explorer for every build for the last month or so. And yet it still seems to forget how to show the Start Menu.

Say what one will about the Windows 8/8.1 Start Screen, but at least when I press the Start Button or Windows Key there, it will actually do something!
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halstead



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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 03:39:08 AM »
    I think they will fix everything before the actual date for upgrade.

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 03:40:00 AM »
    I think they will fix everything before the actual date for upgrade.
    The latest Build available to insiders is the same build that will be made available on Wednesday.
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    Salmon Trout

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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 10:59:43 AM »
    They've "Fixed" Explorer for every build for the last month or so. And yet it still seems to forget how to show the Start Menu.

    Say what one will about the Windows 8/8.1 Start Screen, but at least when I press the Start Button or Windows Key there, it will actually do something!

    Are people having problems?


    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 12:02:37 PM »
    Are people having problems?

    Yes. occasionally on my other system (which has Win10) The start button will stop doing anything. It will blink to another colour when I click it, but nothing happens. Windows key? Nothing happens. I think Windows key combinations kept working, though can't recall. Sometimes I have to reboot (with task manager) more than once to fix it, also. Charitably, at least it seems to happen less frequently than it did a few builds ago, but it still occurs. Haven't noticed a pattern in when it actually happens. As I understand it has something to do with how the Start Menu itself is a separate executable. (allegedly)
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Salmon Trout

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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #6 on: July 28, 2015, 12:39:33 PM »
    On my Dell Latitude D830 laptop I am running Windows 10 Pro build 10240 (32 bit) with all updates to date and when I go tap-tap-tap on the Windows key the Start menu comes and goes as fast as I can tap with no faltering or skips, likewise with left mouse clicks on the Start button. It's a bit sluggish responding on RDP which made me think I had this problem when I read the above a few minutes ago. But using the machine directly it's as responsive as I could wish.


    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #7 on: July 28, 2015, 04:45:05 PM »
    On my Dell Latitude D830 laptop I am running Windows 10 Pro build 10240 (32 bit) with all updates to date and when I go tap-tap-tap on the Windows key the Start menu comes and goes as fast as I can tap with no faltering or skips, likewise with left mouse clicks on the Start button. It's a bit sluggish responding on RDP which made me think I had this problem when I read the above a few minutes ago. But using the machine directly it's as responsive as I could wish.

    yes that is usually how it works for me as well, it's just occasionally that the start button appears to "die", but doing it at all is still more times then I've had it happen with other Windows versions. Acceptable (since it was a Beta/preview) but if 10240 is the same build that will be pushed tomorrow then I feel there may be lingering quality considerations.

    Though I don't intend on upgrading either of my main systems (laptop and desktop) I have my older desktop which I already have running Mint 17 and Windows 10 which I don't plan to change, and I have a "budget build" I made a few weeks ago running Windows 8.1 that I might go ahead and upgrade as well; Though it seems I'll have to clean install since it is not showing a prompt to upgrade- may be a result of using a MSDN license for 8.1.

    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    evilfantasy

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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 12:22:41 AM »
    Say what one will about the Windows 8/8.1 Start Screen, but at least when I press the Start Button or Windows Key there, it will actually do something!

    I don't have that problem but the "Say what one will about the Windows 8/8.1 Start Screen" stands out to me. I never used the Win 8.1 Start Menu and I had pretty much forgotten it even existed but now I want it back so I can forget about it again. No, I don't like the new "Start" menu.

    With Windows 8-8.1 I tweaked a few things and was happily on my way. Thanks for the free OS but since I'll have to work on getting rid of a few things and, hopefully, bring a few things back it doesn't feel free.

    I have adapted to all of the previous Windows and ended up liking them a lot. I don't have a great feeling about #10 though...

    I haven't even opened Microsoft Edge yet because I feel I'll just be disappointed. Is there any encouraging words on the new browser? Should I just leave it alone or go ahead and figure it out?

    strollin



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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #9 on: July 31, 2015, 05:19:24 AM »
    I don't have that problem but the "Say what one will about the Windows 8/8.1 Start Screen" stands out to me. I never used the Win 8.1 Start Menu and I had pretty much forgotten it even existed but now I want it back so I can forget about it again. No, I don't like the new "Start" menu.

    With Windows 8-8.1 I tweaked a few things and was happily on my way. Thanks for the free OS but since I'll have to work on getting rid of a few things and, hopefully, bring a few things back it doesn't feel free.

    I have adapted to all of the previous Windows and ended up liking them a lot. I don't have a great feeling about #10 though...

    I haven't even opened Microsoft Edge yet because I feel I'll just be disappointed. Is there any encouraging words on the new browser? Should I just leave it alone or go ahead and figure it out?
    Not sure why you say this "...  Win 8.1 Start Menu and I had pretty much forgotten it even existed but now I want it back so I can forget about it again." but you can configure Win 10 to use the same Start screen as Win 8, go to Settings->Personalization->Start and enable "Use Start full screen".

    As far as Edge, is pretty stripped down and really can't compete with any of the other browsers out there.  It doesn't support any addins yet so you can't install an ad blocker or anything like that.  I use FireFox on my Win 10 VMs.

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #10 on: July 31, 2015, 06:02:00 AM »
    I have adapted to all of the previous Windows and ended up liking them a lot. I don't have a great feeling about #10 though...
    That is what I find so strange about Windows 10. It is the first Windows OS that I cannot really think of much to say that is positive. Compared to Windows 8.1 it ends up with "negative points" because of all changes I find negative. Supposedly they are planning a Service Release or something next month. Maybe that will address some of the issues I've seen/had. But it is very disillusioning as I now find myself on the opposite side of the fence, so to speak.

    That isn't to suggest it doesn't have positive points. I mean it's certainly usable, it's free, and as far as I can tell pretty much any desktop application still runs on it, so it's more a question of whether what it provides is worth switching from your current OS.

    Quote
    I haven't even opened Microsoft Edge yet because I feel I'll just be disappointed. Is there any encouraging words on the new browser? Should I just leave it alone or go ahead and figure it out?
    It's OK. Probably better than IE in some respects. The main issue I have with Edge is that it's one of their "new" Universal "Apps" What this means is that it doesn't actually have an executable and runs inside explorer.exe,  I'm not a fan of that whole model because it seems like it could be exploited to hide malware once malware authors figure it out. (Though perhaps you'd be more qualified in that area :)). I've seen some articles about Windows 10 changing something such that browsers cannot automatically change what the default browser is. Personally I don't mind this, as I don't like how browsers constantly ask that anyway, and I had no issue switching to Firefox as the default.


    Not sure why you say this "...  Win 8.1 Start Menu and I had pretty much forgotten it even existed but now I want it back so I can forget about it again." but you can configure Win 10 to use the same Start screen as Win 8, go to Settings->Personalization->Start and enable "Use Start full screen".

    Interestingly, This has been suggested to me repeatedly. I think the people suggesting it have either not used the setting or have not used the Windows 8 start screen much, because the full-screen Start Menu behaves quite differently from the Windows 8/8.1 Start Screen. Search Results appear on the opposite side of the screen, the power button is moved from the upper-right to the lower-left, and the profile button is moved into a foldout that appears to be effectively the left pane of the Start Menu expanded to full height. "All Apps" in Windows 8 was pretty silly, since it filled the screen with a whole bunch of applications. Windows 10 keeps those entries the same, large size, but puts them in an area with limited horizontal space, sorted by letter. I don't think this really works for those who actually used the Win7 All Programs Menu, as the reason that was likely appealing was because you could see a number of entries at a time, whereas with Win10's All Apps there is going to be far more scrolling and there is significantly more dead space. One could argue that it is a Start Screen, but it is most certainly not anything like Windows 8's beyond a surface-level comparison. On the bright side, Windows Key+ Typing usually works the same as before, if the Start Screen/Menu decides to show up.

    It seems that in some ways what they have done is create a sort of hybrid between the Windows 7 Start Menu and the Windows 8 Start Screen that has succeeded in, at least to some extent, finding detractors from users of both.

    One of the negative changes that I cannot even think of an explanation for is reducing the customization options. For a "Theme" you can select a background colour and an accent colour, and that is pretty much it- That is all I could find, anyway. It seems strange that the Windows version they have tagged "The Best Windows Ever" (again) has effectively removed so many customization options. Really this removal of options started in Windows Vista as customization options slowly started to get removed. Windows Vista removed the full "Themes" concept, for example- whereas XP had several different themes (Default, Olive, Silver) Vista had just Aero; Windows 7 only used Aero as well, and Windows 8 stripped down the "Advanced Appearance options" dialog to a few options in the personalization options. Windows 10 has removed it entirely, as far as I can tell.

    Arguably my biggest issue is their focus on "Universal Apps" since Windows 8, which they are now really pushing hard. A silly name, since they will only run on Windows anyway, and only newer versions. I actually investigated the feasibility of being able to create some ports of our software to work as Windows 8/Universal Apps, since some of our software is run on Windows 8 tablets and it would be nice if we didn't have to require the Pro versions to run our standard desktop programs on them. That was interesting.

    It seems the development model is oriented around development on Smartphones. In that context, the limitations make sense- for example, due to trust it makes sense that a smartphone program might not be allowed to include and use arbitrary libraries. In my case, I needed a library for accessing Postgres Databases, as well as one for interfacing directly with our server software.

    The odd thing is that this is all not allowed. As far as I can tell it is impossible to create a "Modern UI/Universal" style program that has similar capabilities and underlying architecture to a desktop program but presents it with the new UI; the entire thing needs to be rebuilt. Really the only external interfacing you can do is with "Web services"; so for example in order for the tablet idea to work it would be necessary to create a "Web service" that effectively creates a whole new protocol for interacting with postgres and the server protocol. Seems very strange. Makes sense for Smartphones, again- but not so much for applications intended to run on the desktop. I'll probably have to give it an honest go again this weekend, it may be a case of me not understanding it and thinking it is crap as a result, as that has certainly happened before.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    evilfantasy

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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #11 on: July 31, 2015, 01:31:37 PM »
    The main issue I have with Edge is that it's one of their "new" Universal "Apps" What this means is that it doesn't actually have an executable and runs inside explorer.exe,

    One of the first things I did was find the Edge folder to see what was in it. I was confused for a minute. It does have an .exe but it doesn't have a desktop shortcut like a normal browser. I finally just assumed that it is actually an app and that ended my curiosity. I never liked the IE, Chrome or Firefox apps so unless I somehow accidentally Open Edge I won't be opening it.

    Code: [Select]
    C:\Windows\WinSxS\amd64_microsoft-windows-microsoftedge_31bf3856ad364e35_10.0.10240.16384_none_193830228accc4c7\MicrosoftEdge.exe
    Code: [Select]
    C:\Windows\WinSxS\amd64_microsoft-windows-microsoftedge_31bf3856ad364e35_10.0.10240.16397_none_19381f0c8accd5dd\MicrosoftEdge.exe
    Code: [Select]
    C:\Windows\WinSxS\amd64_microsoft-windows-microsoftedge_31bf3856ad364e35_10.0.10240.16384_none_193830228accc4c7\MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
    As for the second part of your reply BC. I'm with you and have been saying for a while. The cross-platform single OS that MS is obviously wanting might be the hardest task ever. They aren't wanting or needing to build a cross-platform mobile environment because they also want the Windows 10 OS to be on that same platform. That will be an industry wide change and there is not enough incentive at this point for the worlds biggest software developers/distributes to change everything.

    It might actually be easier for MS to launch a whole new cross-platform OS for home/business users that need it but also keep developing the current desktop environment for the billions of users they already have.

    evilfantasy

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    Re: Windows 10 Updates Causing Problems.
    « Reply #12 on: July 31, 2015, 01:56:50 PM »
    Oh yea I forgot to mention I also agree about the lack of Desktop UI customization. I have looked a few times and it appears they have decided that those features aren't important. My flat screen TV is my second monitor and I can't even adjust the display setting on it so it looks bad and is hard to navigate.