Fdisk simulation

[Raptor]

I came across this when searching through the database:

Fdisk simulator

It seems quit useful for people who haven't got a lot (or any at all) experience with Fdisk.

[Raptor]

Considering that I am quit ignorant when it comes to Windows 98 or DOS I really do have a few questions that I would like to have answered before I proceed with formatting:

If I am to format my Master harddrive (Windows XP is currently installed) what would be the best way to do so?

Should I obtain a bootdisk (From where?) and then run /fdisk, remove the largest partition and format the smaller one? Or do I have to format from Windows XP?

Normally, I would simply uninstall XP by removing it from the software list (As far as I can remember, it has always been there until now.)

Are there XP bootdisks? Will these allow me to boot without having to install Windows 98 and yet grant me the ability to run /fdisk and install the Windows XP Home Edition Upgrade?


Windows XP Home Edition Utility: Setup disks for Floppy Boot install

This seems to be an XP bootdisk, however

The Windows XP startup disk allows computers without a bootable CD-ROM to perform a new installation of the operating system. The Windows XP startup disk will automatically load the correct drivers to gain access to the CD-ROM drive and start a new installation of Setup.

Does this bootdisk include /Fdisk?

I assume XP has something like an /Fdisk because how else can a full version of XP create new partitions before installing?

[merlin_2]

www.bootdisk.com for all your needs...just boot from the cd installl/disk... raptor are you going to install winxp or what..just asking..book yourself a hoiladay whilst in installing ....a week should do....and make a backup of your system....and unplug it from the net...bla$ter virus/and netsky...i did post this and no results as yet >this software will enable winxp users to make a cut down installation disk>http://nuhi.msfn.org/download.html

[Raptor]

Donot mock me, Merlin. I am merely looking to obtain info concerning /Fdisk and I wish to be properly informed before continuing. Which I was not the last time I used /Fdisk and I ended up with partitions I was not too fond about.

I donot think I want to use what the link offers,  I am pretty content with what Windows XP has to offer, if there is anything I donot need I prefer to remove it manually..

[Raptor]

http://www.bootdisk.com does not respond. I have tried this earlier on.

Are there other websits I can obtain trusted bootdisks?

[ChrisC]

Raptor;

I tried submitting this message and it's too long.  I suspect that maximum may be about 1000 characters which might be as little as 20 lines.  I'm going to try submitting some amount and then I'd suggest that you give me your e-mail address and I'll e-mail the whole thing.    Sorry

I've used FDISK a few times, probably hundreds actually, and the trouble it can cause is really fun.  But it was a little better before Windows existed because it was rare that it would be used, especially because we usually had only one hard drive and only one partition.

With the number of posts you have, I suspect that you are a whole lot less ignorant than you claim.  But let me help anyway.

First, FORMAT and FDISK are 2 very different animals.  FORMAT can only be run after FDISK and it is FDISK that sets up the partitioning of your hard drive(s).  Without running FDISK, you can't do a FORMAT because there will be no disk structure and FORMAT requires that the structure exists.  Kind of like the framework of a house.  We don't put in walls until the framework is there.

WindowsXP and 2k has ways to install without having to do an FDISK or a FORMAT because they do a "soft" FDISK and FORMAT behind your back.

If you format your "master harddrive" there will be nothing left on that "master" and your system will no longer boot and you will have lost everything!  You could still boot from a bootable floppy, but when you looked at your "master" you would have to sing that ever so popular song "On a Clear Disk, You Can Seek Forever"!

The "master harddrive" that you refer is usually the master on the IDE primary.  You have 2 IDE plugs on your motherboard, known as IDE0 and IDE1 or some boards call it IDE1 and IDE2 or PRIMARY and SECONDARY.  On each IDE the cable can allow up to 2 devices to be used.  The first device on the cable is called the "master" and the second if there is one is the "slave".  We normally boot to the PRIMARY MASTER, and that is the device I believe you are referring to.

Each IDE disk device can then be partitioned and this must be done by FDISK even if the whols device is going to be a single partition.  And there used to be limits placed on the size of a partition, but NTFS and FAT32 have pretty much weaned us off of this problem.

[ChrisC]

Raptor;

Here's part 2.

I suggest that the first partition on the primary master be 2 to 4 GB on Windows98/ME systems and 8 to 10 GB on WindowsXP and 2K.  That will become the C: partition and should be used for Windows and installed programs.  Then when you have to re-install Windows you can erase the C: partition and proceed right into the install because your data will be on other partition(s) and therefore will not be lost.  This assumes that such things as mail boxes and address books have been moved to a partition other than the C: partition.

In addition, creating a relatively small partition means that SCANDISK and DEFRAG and FORMAT on that partition will be much faster than trying the same thing on a partition that is 100GB.

When running FDISK, we must first create a DOS partition, and this doesn't cause XP or 2K any hard feelings because DOS is still there and is called COMMAND.com now where in previous versions, COMMAND.com created your DOS window and still does.

After creating the DOS partition, we then must designate an "active partition" which is a concept that no longer exists but FDISK still requires it.

After designating the "active partition", we should then create additional partitions for the primary master harddrive and keep them to a size that will be quicker to deal with, such as 5 to 10 GB.  If you don't set up partitions to use all the space on that drive, the only problem that will exist is that you can't use that part of the drive until you go back later and create partitions to use the remaining part of the drive.  If you create monstrous partitions, it will take a long time to FORMAT, SCANDISK and DEFRAG.

Now we've created the framework and it's time to put in the walls and floors so we can actually use the space in a partition.  And this is called FORMAT and needs to be done on every partition prior to using that partition.  Prior to the UATA disks, I used to figure about 3 minutes per GB.  On the newer UATA drives, I figure about 3GB per minute.

If you have had WindowsXP or 2K on your harddrive and it was setup for NTFS, fdisk will not run because there is no space left on the drive and FDISK will not allow you to delete the NTFS partitions because FDISK can't find any partitions.  And then you need to use the Windows2000 install to delete the imaginary partitions without proceeding into the Windows2000 install.

And then you can use a Windows98se boot floppy to do an FDISK.  After the FDISK is complete, you can use the WindowsXP or Windows2000 install to format the partitions.  Some partitions may be formatted as NTFS and others formatted as FAT32.  Do not use the boot floppy from the original Windows first edition to do formatting because that FORMAT had problems and I don't remember now what exactly they were.

WindowsXP and Windows2000 can be installed on an NTFS or FAT32 partition.  The argument for using FAT32 is that it is never slower than NTFS except in extremley large files and NTFS partitions can NOT be used by DOS programs.

After FDISK is complete, then all partitions that you plan on using must be formatted.

End of part 2.  It may take only 3 parts!

[ChrisC]

Raptor;

Here's part 3, the last part!

I doubt that you can uninstall XP by removing it from the software list and if XP allows that, it will get what it deserves.  Once you get rid of XP, then you have a great opportunity to install WINDOWS98se and go back to the days of a faster running more stable OS.  And there will not be any more Buffer Overrun attacks!

I doubt that the WindowsXP "bootdisk" really does much.  The description that you gave indicates that you get drivers for CD so you then can start an install.  The bootdisks prior to WindowsXP boot into an environment where you can run programs, delete files, build files with a thing called EDIT, etc.  I don't imagine that the XP "bootdisk" will provide an environment in which you can do an FDISK or FORMAT.

The Windows98se boot disk does not include the FORMAT program.  So after creating or getting a Windows98se boot disk, you should make sure that you add the FORMAT program.

If you haven't created partitions on your hard disk, the WindowsXP install creates a "soft" partition which includes the whole of the primary master drive.  Do you really want a partition that big?

As for time to install WindowsXP or 2K, less than an hour for all the installs I've done.  However, I've seen comments in at least 3 places which claim these installs can take hours.  I've installed an XP Home in under 20 minutes.  Windows98se takes less than 30 minutes on the faster systems that we have these days.  Those times do not include the FORMAT time.  If you are installing XP on an old Pentium II at 150MHz, it might take over an hour plus another hour to format that poor 1.6GB drive.  But if I had an old system like that, I'd sure get it up to at least 256MB memory before I tried installing XP.  

Merlin_2 has obviously suffered thru an older system trying to install WindowsXP, and I wouldn't try it either even though it would only take an hour or two instead of his week or two.  I doubt if I'd even guide a person thru an XP install on that kind of system.  For me, helpfull stops back at about 850MHZ and/or Pentium II.

This is long and very short on the details.  If you'd like, send me an e-mail and we'll do it that way.  At least this gives you some guidlines.

Regards    Chris C.

[Raptor]

Thank you for the explanation, I understand most of formatting and creating partitions, but /Fdisk is quit new to me. This will be the second time I use it and the first time did not quit work out very well.

1. I have a 67GB NTFS partition on my master harddrive. I cannot remove or even read it with /Fdisk? I cannot format it either, because I have installed Windows XP on the NTFS partition and I cannot access XP due to the continious boot on the FAT32 partition

2. I am not interested in using Windows 98, Windows XP is much more stable and supports more devices. (Windows 98 would crash when trying to install 9000Pro drivers, so I wonder how my 9800Pro will react)
The reason I have to format is because Pest Patrol caused me to remove an important .DLL file which I could not replace, most likely due to the Windows Xp Home Edition upgrade disk.

I am hoping you know where to obtain a proper bootdisk?

[johnwill]

If you boot the XP CD, you can do any partitioning and formatting as part of the install process, no FDISK needed.  I'd stick to that plan, and it's dirt simple...

[Raptor]

I have removed the NTFS partition by using the XP CD and my primairy FAT32 partition by using /Fdisk. After that, I created a new primairy partition.

[ChrisC]

The oracle of bootdisks is  at  http://www.bootdisk.com.  I was able to bring it up within the last few minutes with and without the www.  I don't know what happened when you tried it on the 17th.  From the description of the available boot disk for XP that you included several posts back, it sounds as though its not the kind of boot disk that we've had prior to XP/2K in that it just brings in the CD drivers and then goes right into the install where in Windows98se and prior, it did bring in the CD driver and then it went to an A:> command prompt so that we could FDISK, FORMAT, run DOS programs,etc.

I've installed XP several times, like maybe a dozen, but I just allowed the install CD to do it's own thing.  I had noticed that it did have the facilities which I've used in the Windows2000 install but have not used them in XP enough to talk about.  But I'm glad to hear that the facility on the XP install is that much like 2K.

I'd still recommend FAT32 though.  There's been a lot written about the issue of speed with NTFS going all the way from NTFS is a dog to some saying that NTFS is always way faster than FAT32.  I don't believe either extreme and haven't been able to do any testing that might sway me.  I suspect that the truth is that NTFS does provide a much higher level of security and is sometimes slightly faster than FAT32 and sometimes slightly slower than FAT32, but never enough faster or slower to be able to measure.

And it is true that FDISK that we have now can not work with an NTFS formatted hard disk.  That's why you would have to remove all NTFS partitions using the Windows2000 install and the WindowsXP install is apparently capable of doing this.

When FDISK tries to show what is on an NTFS formatted disk, it says there are no partitions.  When you try to have FDISK create a partition on an NTFS partitioned disk, FDISK will say there is no available space on that disk!

And the facilities provided in the 2K install are dirt simple and from what JohnWill says and you tried, it's dirt simple in XP also.  My only hesitation would be what happens when the 2K/XP install creates the FAT32 partitions with out installing the OS and then a person were to try to install Windows9x, would it have a problem because no partition is designated as "active" though Windows9x no longer needs that designation.

Regards   Chris C.

[johnwill]

Windows 2000 or XP install has no issues creating a bootable hard disk from scratch or when modifying and adding/deleting partitions.  There is not any reason to require FDISK to install an NT based O/S.

[Mac]

http://www.bootdisk.com does not respond. I have tried this earlier on.

Are there other websites where I can obtain trusted bootdisks?

Try the link below. If you have a bootable CD-ROM then you don't need Windows XP bootdisks, using the XP CD should suffice.

If your CD-ROM is not bootable then you can get the approved XP Home and XP Professional bootdisk sets at the Microsoft XP bootdisk site.

Home http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=E8FE6868-6E4F-471C-B455-BD5AFEE126D8

Pro  http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=55820EDB-5039-4955-BCB7-4FED408EA73F

It would be a good idea for Microsoft to offer the same service for all other Microsoft Operating System bootdisks, in my opinion.

[Raptor]

The links are much obliged, Mac, however, my CD-ROM works fine whilst booting and Windows has been working for a few days now. Better than ever. It even boots faster than it shuts down. Imagine that.