Dual Monitor Compatible?

[Anythingwill]

Hello,

Ok, so this time i've got a question about setting up dual monitors.

So i install my video card, windows gives me the install new hardware thing, and then i go to settings in display properties, and it doesn't give me the option for dual monitors. I get a picture like the one on the left rather than like the picture on the right (neither are of my actual computer). The video card itself is not a dual monitor card, but i was just going to use two video cards. No matter what this shouldn't be the problem, because even with just the internal video card, no chance of dual monitors, you get a screen like on the right.

Is my computer not dual monitor compatible or something? Did i miss something?

My computer is a Shuttle XPC SS51G v2.0 like on http://eu.shuttle.com/archive/en/ss51g_faq.htm

Any Advice?

Thank you

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[homer]

we need the video cards make/model number.

but i was just going to use two video cards.

by "going" to use, do you mean that you currently do not have the second card?

because even with just the internal video card, no chance of dual monitors, you get a screen like on the right.

?? i have never heard of this before or seen it. are you sure you didnt mean you get a screen like on the left?

[Anythingwill]

One is just the internal card of course, easiest way if it'll work, The other is going to have to be my ATI XPERT 98 8MB card. I have a better card, but unfortunatly it isn't working, and by this point i'm just interested in setting up dual monitors. I'm not as concerned with the quality.

And no i meant right side.

If you look at my new pic this is from my friends comp. They only have the internal video card and yet it's still ready if they ever decided to set up dual monitors. This is what i've seen on all other computers as well.

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[BC_Programmer]

are you sure that your friends computer's integrated graphics doesn't have two outputs, or a TV-out? TV-out causes it to have two displays on that screen (depending on the card, of course- some just essentially send the same thing over two wires). As an example, my Radeon 9250 shows the multiple displays in the tab, but that is due to the TV-out- I can actually only plug a single monitor into it.


If you want to experiment with multiple displays, you'll need to install both cards (one at a time) into the machine. The problem being you have integrated video- generally (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) integrated video and a graphics card can't be used at the same time.

So you'll need two graphics cards...

BTW, I'm not sure on this, but AGP cards generally don't get along with PCI cards within Dual configurations, you can choose one or the other, but not both, so you probably need two PCI cards.

in any case, the screen you want will only be displayed when two display devices are installed- even in my case, with the Radeon 9250, I had two displays installed, they showed up in device manager as a Radeon 9250 and a Radeon 9250 Secondary.


And as Homer said, we need the video cards make/model number that is integrated into your computer, that is, the one your using, which will help confirm the absence of a separate TV-out.


And if it all works out in the end- I hope you have a big desk or LCD monitors! CRT monitors take up alot of space, and two makes it just silly

[soybean]

If you want to experiment with multiple displays, you'll need to install both cards (one at a time) into the machine. The problem being you have integrated video- generally (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) integrated video and a graphics card can't be used at the same time.

Depends on the make/model but, yes, that may be true.  He needs to read some documentation on his computer.

So you'll need two graphics cards...

Not necessarily.  Many (single) cards support two monitors.  Typically, such cards will have a VGA (also called D-Sub) port and a DVI port.  If two VGA ports are needed, a DVI-to-VGA adapter can be used on the DVI port.

BTW, I'm not sure on this, but AGP cards generally don't get along with PCI cards within Dual configurations, you can choose one or the other, but not both, so you probably need two PCI cards.

Not necessarily.  I've used various combinations of AGP and PCI video cards, and so have many other computer users.  However, I do recommend cards with graphics chips from the same manufacturer (ATI or nVidia); there's less chance of device conflict that way. 

Anyway, I believe he only has one PCI slot.  That's what I gather from the link he posted.  So, assuming that slot is available and assuming his computer will not use onboard video and an add-on card at the same time, I believe he has three options:
1) an AGP card that supports two monitors
2) a PCI card that supports two monitors
3) two cards (AGP and PCI), each supporting one monitor

[BC_Programmer]

wow it's a good think I put the "correct me if I'm mistaken" and "i'm not sure on this" in there! I would have looked really silly otherwise!

I was aware that some cards have two outputs separate but wasn't sure if Anything will would be willing to buy another card- I did however forget that although there are VGA and TV-outs on some that there are also DVI+VGA, and (on my Radeon 7000, anyway) VGA+VGA combinations.

And yes I suppose that newer AGP cards could work alongside a PCI card. I was referring to the card he mentioned, a "ATI XPERT 98 8MB" which I believe to be a ATI Rage Pro. I know I tried setting up dual displays with that card a few times, but it kept saying my primary display wasn't compatible with multiple displays. Then again, my Other PCI Vid card was a Trident or Cirrus or some other long forgotten video card manufacturer, so that is probably why it didn't work.

hey wait a second- the first sentence of my post kind of covered the dual output scenario... sort of.

hopefully he'll post back with some mobo/Integrated graphics info so we can see what he can do.


It is also possible he doesn't have an AGP port depending on the age of the machine, could be that the integrated video is AGP or something but they don't provide a AGP connector block (how much harder could it POSSIBLY be for them to solder one on?) just a bunch of metal dots.

[soybean]

It is also possible he doesn't have an AGP port depending on the age of the machine,  ...

My computer is a Shuttle XPC SS51G v2.0 like on http://eu.shuttle.com/archive/en/ss51g_faq.htm

According to the info on the link he posted, and at http://eu.shuttle.com/archive/en/ss51g.htm#specificatio , he has an AGP slot.

I had an ATI XPERT 98 8MB card (PCI) and tried using it along with a nVidia AGP card, on my ECS K7S5A PRO motherboard.  I have a Win 98SE/Win XP PRO dual boot configuration using the motherboard.  With Win 98SE, Windows would recognize the two cards and allow me to use dual monitors.  But, Win XP did not like the ATI XPERT 98 8MB card and I was not able to get it to work right with Win XP.  Win XP is more finicky when it comes to working with some older hardware; I think he may not be successful in getting that card to work with Win XP.

[BC_Programmer]

errrm- yeah, I was just testing you- So it was my AGP card that failed to work- I can't remember if I tried dual displays myself with XP or 98 but I guess that almost confirms 98.

I remember reading that spec the first time I read the thread but I guess I forgot!

I wonder if he'll post back any of his "findings"...?

[Anythingwill]

Yea i'll post back, sorry, seems you guys got a lot done today for my topic.

Soybean's right, i've got just the one PCI which is free, and the AGP.
It's unfortunate i can't use the internal, but i guess that's the way things go.
By the sounds of it, the best thing for me to do is either to leave this, or get a dual AGP card. Otherwise, i can't use my PCI slot if i need it, and if i use two seperate i still need to buy another card and it might not work. I was aware of dual cards, but you know, i'm cheap, and if i didn't need it then all the better.

So, extending this a little bit, if you only get the dual monitor screen if it's actually possible on your computer, then does that mean my friend could run dual monitors? Here's a screen shot of the apparently two slots available for a monitor.

I've looked at the back of their computer, and i really don't see anywhere for a second monitor, it's just an internal card and that. Is there something i'm missing?

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[soybean]

You are correct in saying that a second monitor should be feasible if the Display Properties panel shows two monitors.  In other words, if that screen shows a representation of two monitors, then that implies the system has the hardware configuration needed to support two monitors.  So, I don't what's going on with your friends computer.  It's a weird case; I sense we may be missing some pertinent fact about his/her computer. 

Anyway, if you're now thinking of buying a video card and want to keep the cost down, here's one I'd recommend: EVGA GeForce FX 5500 / 128MB DDR / AGP 8x / DVI / VGA / TV Out / Video Card.  TigerDirect has a rebate offer on it now.  I have a very similar card, only with 256MB of memory.  I run dual monitors with it.

[BC_Programmer]

since your friends Vid Card is integrated, it is possible the second monitor output just doesn't have a jumper block plugged in- that is, there are some pins on the mobo for both monitors, but the existing(main) monitor output is the only one that actually plugs into the motherboard. I haven't seen this with internal video, but I had a old pentium with one marked "USB" that didn't have anything plugged in (thus no USB ports, but a USB hub appeared in device manager).

Its also possible that the manufacturer of the mobo just kind of "forgot" that the integrated chipset was dual-display compatible.

Or, you could be looking for the wrong kind of plug- it won't necessarily be a VGA or DVI plug, but could also be a S-video (kind of looks like a PS/2 plug, but only at a glance), or a composite output (looks like a giant phono plug that sticks out.). I
m fairly sure you can get converters to use them with actual monitors, but I'm not sure. In any case you could check device manager for the "secondary" display adapter

I sure wish I had a free PCI slot. Between my Sound Card, WNIC, USB 2.0 card, and the slot my darn video card keeps me from using, I have no where to put my TV-tuner Card. Oh well.

So Your ATI Rage Pro is AGP-based? I guess that prevents you from doing dual-display without a PCI card, and if you go and buy a video card, you may as well get a good AGP one anyway, preferably (in your case) with dual-display support.


I have a similiar card to what soybean recommends(and uses)- mine is a BFG GeForce FX 5500OC 256MB, but It only has a VGA and TV-out, no DVI. And I had to underclock it to get it to work properly- but the eVGA card at a glance probably supports dual displays, you'll just need a compatible DVI to VGA dongle.

[soybean]

Or, you could be looking for the wrong kind of plug- it won't necessarily be a VGA or DVI plug, but could also be a S-video (kind of looks like a PS/2 plug, but only at a glance), or a composite output (looks like a giant phono plug that sticks out.).

I also thought about an S-video connector being the source of the appearance of a second monitor option appearing in his friend's computer.  S-video is generally used to connect a TV to a computer and use the TV as a monitor.

... the eVGA card at a glance probably supports dual displays, you'll just need a compatible DVI to VGA dongle.

From one of the reviews on TigerDirect:
"Running this card in dual-monitor configuration, and it's working beautifully. Note to anyone else buying this card for dual-monitor use: a DVI to VGA adapter is included."

[Anythingwill]

Yea, the evga card doesn't look too bad, thanks.

Alright, so my friends motherboard is apparently a M7NCG 400 - BIOSTAR like on http://www.motherboard.cz/mb/biostar/M7NCG400.htm
The one thing i noticed about this was that it said "1 x TV Out Header" as well as "1 x TV-Out Cable(Optional)".
So is that suppose to look like the plug at the top of this picture http://www.radisys.com/files/data_sheets/TP945GM_angle_web.jpg ? Because i don't see that at the back of the computer. Is it maybe covered by the case?
Or perhaps I was wondering if header meant what you were talking about BC_Programmer where it might be capable of being there and not actually there. Only then you'd need a little more than just a cable.

[BC_Programmer]

... the eVGA card at a glance probably supports dual displays, you'll just need a compatible DVI to VGA dongle.

From one of the reviews on TigerDirect:
"Running this card in dual-monitor configuration, and it's working beautifully. Note to anyone else buying this card for dual-monitor use: a DVI to VGA adapter is included."

[/quote]

So he'll be all set! I've never got a DVI-VGA adapter included with my video cards so I didn't realize.

Yea, the evga card doesn't look too bad, thanks.

Alright, so my friends motherboard is apparently a M7NCG 400 - BIOSTAR like on http://www.motherboard.cz/mb/biostar/M7NCG400.htm
The one thing i noticed about this was that it said "1 x TV Out Header" as well as "1 x TV-Out Cable(Optional)".
So is that suppose to look like the plug at the top of this picture http://www.radisys.com/files/data_sheets/TP945GM_angle_web.jpg ? Because i don't see that at the back of the computer. Is it maybe covered by the case?
Or perhaps I was wondering if header meant what you were talking about BC_Programmer where it might be capable of being there and not actually there. Only then you'd need a little more than just a cable.

the "1 x TV Out Header" is probably refering to a header on the motherboard- these types of connectors are where some motherboard-based I/O connectors come off the motherboard. As Soybean mentioned however TV-out is generally a S-video port. I believe all six of the connectors at the bottom are affiliated with the sound output- the one at the top of the board looks like a composite, I'm not sure.


I highly doubt the case would be covering it, although I suppose it is possible (did I mention it was unlikely?)

[Anythingwill]

I just did a google image search and that's just what happened to come up.
Also i'm just trying to come up with an explanation as to why i can't find this thing 

So wait, is this something that's on the motherboard, not on the back panel? If it is then what would they need to get it working?