Author Topic: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening (Read 27732 times)

BC_Programmer · « **Reply #30 on:** June 05, 2009, 06:57:50 PM »

Dreamweaver does, but not so much. really, office adds it, because it is sort of trying to use HTML to "replace" DOC, so you can open/save etc just an HTML file. word 97 could export to HTML, I think, but not save as HTML. that was a good balance.

kpac · « **Reply #31 on:** June 06, 2009, 03:27:46 AM »

Quote from: Helpmeh on June 05, 2009, 06:36:33 PM

always add that header junk

To stop confusion, call it by its proper name....... meta data.

Rob Pomeroy · « **Reply #32 on:** June 06, 2009, 03:30:16 AM »

Notepad adds the least crap. Except when used by a noob.

AmyR7 · « **Reply #33 on:** June 06, 2009, 09:41:16 PM »

I don't ever get the long list you typed out. Maybe it's a different version you all have than me of Microsoft Word? The only other thing I can think of, I was looking around in the help section of Word and there is something called Filterd Html, here is what is it says and I decided to try some things and see if I can figure out what you are talking about. Also, are you talking about when you hit view source in the browser, it shows all this stuff? Here is what it shows if you save it as filter html, and it doesn't show all the list you have, and here is what it says too about saving in filter html

Reduce Web page size by filtering HTML
This feature is only recommended for experienced Web authors who are concerned about the tags that appear in their HTML files.

When possible, you should only save a Web page in filtered HTML when you're finished editing it in Microsoft Word.

On the File menu, click Save As.
If you have not saved the file before, enter a new name for the file in the File box.
In the Save as Type box, click Web Page, Filtered.
Click Save.
Here is the code it gives me:
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">
<title>Testing this out </title>
<style>

</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal>Testing this out </p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

kpac · « **Reply #34 on:** June 07, 2009, 05:45:57 AM »

That example of code isn't too bad actually.

These parts, though, aren't needed:

Code: [Select]

<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">

Code: [Select]

<style>
<!--
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
   {margin:0in;
   margin-bottom:.0001pt;
   font-size:12.0pt;
   font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@page Section1
   {size:8.5in 11.0in;
   margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
   {page:Section1;}
-->
</style>

Code: [Select]

lang=EN-US
....and they add loading time to the page, especially for people with slow internet connections. Also:

Code: [Select]

<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
windows-1252 is not really a good charset to be using, but it doesn't matter really.

Word also seems to use inches for dimensions which is very....."old".

soybean · « **Reply #35 on:** June 07, 2009, 09:07:26 AM »

Quote from: AmyR7 on June 06, 2009, 09:41:16 PM

Also, are you talking about when you hit view source in the browser, it shows all this stuff?

Yes, that's what we're talking about.

Quote

Reduce Web page size by filtering HTML

That does appear to generate a lot less of the clutter in the HTML coding.

AmyR7 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 07, 2009, 03:19:55 PM »

This is making me even more confused on what to think about the correct things to use and stuff for creating websites.
My very first website was on Jonathan Taylor Thomas at Angelfire in like 1995. Before getting a scanner to where I could scan pictures I have, I started off by just trying to see if I could figure out how to do links correctly. So, I made a page that is links to other Jonathan sites. So, I login to my account at Angelfire and do the editing with the tools and all they give for selecting colors and stuff for size of fonts, stuff like that. That was before I took a class that had us use all those Office programs I mentioned.
I also of course keep having so many problems due to hacking too, and have had to redo things too because of that.

Anyways, another thing too is that right before my health got worse, and see stress makes it worse too. I was trying to help my sister and her husband on a site for his new job, for free too since I enjoy helping others out. It helps me feel good being able to help others out. My only other issue at times is with alignment things I get mixed up on. Plus I also kept having problems with my computer crashing and freezing up too everytime I try and get to where we login to work on the site. So, anyways, I had been to this other html help site trying to get a little help and then someone says something about missing some things and something about not using tables anymore. Plus then they mention something about CSS, which I'm still trying to figure out what it means. We had everything working just fine with just Html too, and now they are paying someone to do the site for them. Which the thing I don't understand if I hit view source, it seems there are tables on the site. It says the word table in between the two brackets <table>. Here is the site and you can see what I mean about it says table http://www.astresurfacing.com/
I also had alot less codes on my sites too and then someone added like all the stuff you now took away.

Here is a page http://www.geocities.com/amymusicfan/claypics.htmlof what I did, and here http://www.geocities.com/amymusicfan/tryingthisclay.htmlis something someone told me I need to do instead.

The only other thing I keep trying to understand, is when I read something else in this Office 03 book I have it makes it sound like we don't want to use Html and have the settings somehow set to not view content. Here is what it says that is confusing and is under Enhanced privacy features- Messages in HTML format often include pictures or sounds. Sometimes the pictures and sounds aren't included in the message itself but downloaded from a Web server when the e-mail message is opened or previewed. Then it talks about junk email senders use this capability by including a Web beacon in the message.

Plus I don't understand how you can use Notepad for a website. Doesn't seem to have much features like, how do you add images and stuff like that, and it wont allow me to change the fonts or colors. Just allows you to use 1 font for the entire page.
I've also had things getting changed on me, not just in Myspace, stuff not even for a website, but just notes I take on things using Wordpad and Notepad. I have this one file I created using Wordpad, and somehow it's all messed up and showing all these strange symbols and stuff all over the page. Same with last time I tried to use Notepad somehow things were getting erased and some strange message like someone was writing to a judge or something because it started saying your honor in the message, and other things too plus alot of dots across the screen.........
So, I don't understand if there is some setting somewhere doing this stuff or I guess someone is hacking through doing this?

The other thing, I don't have much energy to type for a long time, so using the Office software and all helps alot with things and I still feel like I'm able to create things. It has the choices you can choose from like for colors and stuff like that. I also run into alot of problems with like typing in the brackets causes me more pain and stuff if I try to type the codes out myself like<html></html>.
I don't really know if I understand some of the things too you said about the charest thing? What is that mean? Doesn't Outlook Express also add those codes if your sending emails and stuff?

Oh one more question, what is a url? I thought I knew what one was, but maybe I don't know. Isn't it the same thing as a link to a website? Someone told me I have the wrong url. Like if someone asked me what is the url for ComputerHope, isn't it www.computerhope.com

Thanks,
Amy

Rob Pomeroy · « **Reply #37 on:** June 08, 2009, 05:58:51 AM »

Hi Amy,

Way back in the days I first got started in web design, someone told me just to "view the source" of other web pages and use that as the basis of my own web pages. I suggest you try this. Click the "View" menu on your browser and then whatever option says something about "source" (varies between browsers). You'll see that a web page is in fact made up mostly of HTML code.

For example, you might see this on a web site:

Quote

some text in bold

but in fact the underlying code is like this:

Code: [Select]

some text <b>in bold</b>
The "<b>" is an HTML 'tag' that tells the browser where to start putting text in bold, and the "</b>" is the tag that tells the browser where to stop. All browsers work this way - they read in so-called 'plain text' and translate it into fancy formatting.

Another example - where you see an image on a page, the underlying code will be something like this:

Code: [Select]

<img src='/path/to/image.gif' />
and instead of displaying that as text, the browser knows to go off and find the image and display that instead.

You are right about URLs. They take the form "http://website.domain". The "website.domain" bit tells the browser where to go, and the "http://" bit tells the browser what to do when it gets there - in this case to speak in the language of the web, Hypertext Transfer Protocol.

Does this help? The best way to learn how web pages are made up is (in my view) to compose them in plain text - this is why Notepad is good enough for the job. A fully featured web coding program is better, but might be overwhelming at first. I would start with Notepad, read some HTML tutorials and work your way up.

AmyR7 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:53:58 AM »

Hi Rob and everyone else too,
How are you all doing today?
Before I start writing, just thought I'd clear up any misunderstandings too. Are you all thinking I'm just now beginning to create websites? I created my very first website back in 1995/1996 I think.
That is actually the exact same things I did too back when I created my first website, hitting the view source thing. I sort of figured that what we are seeing at the top of the pages must be in that order from top to bottom. Also, yes, I did go all around looking at all the html tutorials I could find and printed them off to read them. Noticed how they have like the title of the site surrounded by the title tags <title>The title of the site here</title>.
Yes, I've been using like

Code: [Select]

<b></b> to bold things. But the only other thing is that sometimes I notice other brackets around them like

Code: [Select]

[b][/b]Things like Microsoft Word, and all these other programs and the thing here too has buttons to press to do bold, italics, all that stuff that I noticed you typed out in the thing. Which seems easier to just use those things because I don't see anything much in Notepad for doing that stuff, and same with adding pictures to the page. They have something to click on in order to insert an image.
When I go to login to like where we do the webpages, it seems to not have Notepad there, like when I login to Geocities, and other places out there, same thing with the place my sister and her husband got their site from Imhosting I thing maybe was the name of the company and they seem to have Microsoft Word I think or maybe it was called WYSIWYG eiditor. It was similar functions to Microsoft Word. nothing to click on that says notepad.
Plus like I still don't understand why in the web design classes, why do they have us use all these programs for doing the pages if not a good thing to do. Seems a waste of time and money too to sign up for the class if it's not going to teach us the correct things.

also same for the image thing sometimes I'm now seeing the img thing written outside of brackets img like this
img,table{border:0}

About the only thing that I still have problems with is alignment issues, and then someone at this other site said something about not using tables. How else do you split things up into columns or rows? I tried looking all over the place and tried so many other ways, and haven't got anything to work right. Plus I see tables all over every site it seems like. So, I thought that was something I needed to learn to do. The same with frames. The other thing I'm trying to still figure out is if I need any CSS files. I've got so many different answers as to whether or not this is necessary. I've got things showing up just fine with what I thought was html. I tried making a css file and when I tried it said it's invalid file name.
Here is my very first site though if you want to see it- http://www.angelfire.com/fl/JTT99/
Here is a movie site I've got- http://www.geocities.com/amylovesmovies/
Another movie site I have- http://www.geocities.com/moviefan756/
Which then you will see how I do things and why I have tables to divide things up.

The other thing too, always with anything in life I try to do, even after reading the tutorials, I still need to ask questions on things I'm not quite understanding all the way. I do have some learning disabilities though that make everything more challenging for me to understand sometimes mostly with reading comprehension and vocabulary. I'm also slower too with things. Which since I'm classified as disabled student, I get to have as much time as I need with tests. I've never been able to pass the reading portion of any of those standarized tests. I think more now due to vocabulary is causing me to miss the questions. Which passing the test is one of my main goals in life to one day pass that section. I did great in the math sections though. My scores are high enough to take things like Calculus.

Also, since this past August/September my health has been getting worse. One of the symptoms I keep having is memory and confusion problems being really bad. Still not doing well, so having to relearn and review daily too so I don't forget things which I'm really scared that will happen with what has been going on. My health also makes it hard for me to type for long too, which is sort of another reason why typing out is harder for me.
Just one other thing about the images, I thought you have to upload them somewhere first? Like to the filemanager or whereever you are doing the site at? Isn't that right?
So, like the path to the image if you upload it to like photobucket, or geocities, isn't it the thing you see in the address bar?
So then you put <img src="whatever the url it says is what you put here?"/>
Also, seems like if I put just like <img src="jtt.jpg"> that seems to work too?
See I also have pictures just saved to the My Pictures folder on the computer. Would that then be the path? Like if I go in the My Pictures folder, I see like memphis.JPG under the name of the photo.

Take Care,
Amy

kpac · « **Reply #39 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:38:25 PM »

Quote

But the only other thing is that sometimes I notice other brackets around them like

These are codes you use on a forum, like this, and are called BBCode.

Quote

I don't see anything much in Notepad for doing that stuff, and same with adding pictures to the page. They have something to click on in order to insert an image.

Notepad doesn't have these features - you have to type out all the page's code (the code you see when you view the Page Source). Though harder to do this way, it is the best way to do it.

Quote

maybe it was called WYSIWYG eiditor.

Just so you know, a WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) editor is like Word. Notepad is not, because you cannot see the changes you make instantly appear.

Quote

Plus like I still don't understand why in the web design classes, why do they have us use all these programs for doing the pages if not a good thing to do. Seems a waste of time and money too to sign up for the class if it's not going to teach us the correct things.

I don't know about this. Maybe you should try talking to the instructor about it?

Quote

sometimes I'm now seeing the img thing written outside of brackets img like this img,table{border:0}

This is where you're getting confused. That bit of code is actually CSS. That code means that all images and tables on the page should have no borders.

Quote

and then someone at this other site said something about not using tables. How else do you split things up into columns or rows?

The "new" (and better) way is to use DIV tags. That person shouldn't have really said anything about it, though, as it really isn't necessary to not use tables. It's only an issue with future browser compatibility.

Quote

The other thing I'm trying to still figure out is if I need any CSS files.

Not needed unless you want them, which you probably don't.

Quote

Just one other thing about the images, I thought you have to upload them somewhere first? Like to the filemanager or whereever you are doing the site at? Isn't that right?

Yes, that's right.

Quote

So, like the path to the image if you upload it to like photobucket, or geocities, isn't it the thing you see in the address bar?
So then you put <img src="whatever the url it says is what you put here?"/>

Yes, that works, and will always work.

Quote

Also, seems like if I put just like <img src="jtt.jpg"> that seems to work too?

This only works if the image is in the same folder as the page you are looking at.

Quote

See I also have pictures just saved to the My Pictures folder on the computer. Would that then be the path? Like if I go in the My Pictures folder, I see like memphis.JPG under the name of the photo.

Obviously the file would have to be uploaded somewhere on the Web, first.

AmyR7 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 08, 2009, 01:08:22 PM »

Sorry if I'm writing again so quick. Thought of a couple things I wanted to add, oh and guess what, Rob, I put a link for your site on my myspace page/site whatever you want to call it. Under the blog enteries is where I put it in the part that talks about Computer help sites, and other things like that is what the title of the entry is. Here is the url, and do you all have a myspace site at all? www.myspace.com/jttandryanfan

Also, here is what my book says that I have for the class I had taken. It says about using a web page authoring site and management program. Says that you can create and edit Web pages without knowing Hypertext Markup Language(HTML), view the pages and files in the Web site and control their organization, manage existing web sites, import and export files, and diagnose and correct problems.
Then it goes on to talk about templates too.
Which that is what I have with Microsoft PowerPoint, Word, all these templates, plus then sometimes I start with changing the background color, stuff like that I enjoy doing. Word and those other things seem to also have a view source thing too I noticed.
I actually have a few slide shows I made with PowerPoint, only thing I keep trying to figure out about that is a good place to put it where anyone who wants to can view it for free anytime they want.

Take Care,
Amy

kpac · « **Reply #41 on:** June 08, 2009, 01:17:03 PM »

Quote

Rob, I put a link for your site on my myspace page/site whatever you want to call it.

It think you might want to change it to public... I get this when I try to view it: This specific blog entry you're trying to read is currently set to be private, and only the blog owner can see it."

Quote

I actually have a few slide shows I made with PowerPoint, only thing I keep trying to figure out about that is a good place to put it where anyone who wants to can view it for free anytime they want.

Yes, that would be possible to do. It probably wouldn't work to just embed them into a webpage, as the person viewing it mightn't have PowerPoint installed on their computer, so it wouldn't work. I'm sure you could convert the slideshow though.

AmyR7 · « **Reply #42 on:** June 08, 2009, 06:45:38 PM »

Well, this just makes me want to quit everything. Just getting so much more confusing.
Some of the stuff you helped clear up a little on the CSS thing. Looks like maybe I have been doing CSS and not even realizing it.
When I make the tables, it has the different things you can select for it like if you want borders, and all the other stuff like that.
Before taking the classes like I mentioned, I started creating sites. One big thing I did learn too was to make my images smaller. That was about the only things people told me about that I figured out how to do correct too.
Oh and just now thought I'd see if maybe someone I know who is a computer programmer could look at some of my sites and help clear up any confusion. He said nothing at all is wrong with my codes and if anyone says anything about it doesn't know what they are talking about.
All this stress and confusion started mostly back this past August/September when trying to help out my sister and her husband with the site for free too for his new job. The only thing I was trying to get help on is a little something with alignment in the tables, and someone said about not using tables anymore. I've been trying to figure out if it's against the law to use tables. Which with my health getting worse due to the stress and everything too, they have had to pay someone now to do the site. Anyways, I noticed they put tables on the site.
Thank you so much everyone though for trying the best and stuff to help clear things up for me too. Sorry too if some of it I maybe a little confused about at first.
I'm not exactly sure how to change the preferences to public. I thought it already was marked as public. I'll have to see if my nephew can help me with this since he uses Myspace too. Of course he just left to go to Mexico with his church to help out with mission stuff.

kpac · « **Reply #43 on:** June 09, 2009, 04:36:53 AM »

Quote

I've been trying to figure out if it's against the law to use tables. Which with my health getting worse due to the stress and everything too, they have had to pay someone now to do the site. Anyways, I noticed they put tables on the site.

No, it's not against the law. Most websites use tables somewhere. Tables are easier to use than the "proper" way, so there is less work in using tables.

Quote

Thank you so much everyone though for trying the best and stuff to help clear things up for me too. Sorry too if some of it I maybe a little confused about at first.

That is no problem at all. It's good to ask questions.

Rob Pomeroy · « **Reply #44 on:** June 09, 2009, 05:37:01 AM »

Quote from: AmyR7 on June 08, 2009, 06:45:38 PM

Well, this just makes me want to quit everything. Just getting so much more confusing.

I'm very sorry it's having that effect on you Amy.

Where I'm coming from is getting back to first principles with web design. There are fundamentally two different types of web designer: the graphic designers, who tend to be good at look and feel but not great on code, and the programmers, who tend to be good on coding and standards compliance, but not great with graphics. I fall into the latter camp, so my comments should be read accordingly.

As kpac said, I couldn't access your blog, but feel free to add me: myspace.com/robpomeroy

Quote from: AmyR7 on June 08, 2009, 06:45:38 PM

Some of the stuff you helped clear up a little on the CSS thing. Looks like maybe I have been doing CSS and not even realizing it.
When I make the tables, it has the different things you can select for it like if you want borders, and all the other stuff like that.

It depends on the editor. Some use HTML attributes to modify the look of page elements; others use CSS styling. CSS is very powerful and should generally be used in preference to HTML attributes.

Quote from: AmyR7 on June 08, 2009, 06:45:38 PM

Oh and just now thought I'd see if maybe someone I know who is a computer programmer could look at some of my sites and help clear up any confusion. He said nothing at all is wrong with my codes and if anyone says anything about it doesn't know what they are talking about.

I'd be happy to give a second opinion, if you wish, but it's nice to have the comfort of a good review, isn't it!

Quote from: AmyR7 on June 08, 2009, 06:45:38 PM

I've been trying to figure out if it's against the law to use tables.

Ha! That's one of those "religious debates" in web design. Frankly, some things are much easier to do - once - using tables. The strength of CSS is that it's much easier to modify a page that uses complex CSS than a page that uses a complex table-based layout. I think you have to remember that a lot of these guys who rant about CSS versus tables work in industries where collaboration is necessary and they all have to work in a standardised way. This has an impact on the design decisions they make. Using tables is not wrong (although often it's not the best way).

One final thought - if you want to design web sites using a WYSIWYG editor, then I would recommend using DreamWeaver (for better results than Word). If you prefer to use a free web design package (because DreamWeaver is pricy, at least in the UK), I would suggest KompoZer.

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Author Topic: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening (Read 27732 times)

BC_Programmer

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

kpac

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

Rob Pomeroy

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

AmyR7

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

kpac

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

soybean

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

AmyR7

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

Rob Pomeroy

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

AmyR7

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

kpac

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

AmyR7

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

kpac

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

AmyR7

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

kpac

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening

Rob Pomeroy

Re: Not sure excatly why this keeps happening