help with son's pc

[Quantos]

Westrom, can I ask a personal question:  am I being too sensitive when I feel as if you are ridiculing me for not being comfortable using a multimeter?  I used something similar, I suspect, when I hooked up my cb radio back in the 1980's.  I came to this site looking for assistance, not ridicule or insults.  I am genuinely looking for help here.  This computer is what I use to ease the stress my son is feeling with school being out for the summer.  He is severe ADHD and the disruption to his "normal" schedule has him rattled. I need to get it up and running ASAP.

I don't want to put words into westom's mouth, but I don't think that he is ridiculing you.  He feels(rightly so) that he is being attacked for suggesting it. 

On this note, westom, I'm sorry.

[Aardobard]

When I did the ram swap  not only was the pc not connected to an outlet, it didn't even have a power cord attatched.  When I was in high school, science was an elective so I actually did not take any classes.  We didn't even have computers for our typing/business/keyboarding classes--we used IBM selectic typewriters.  In college I had basic science classes, still nothing related to electronics or computers.  I don't even own any computer repair books.  I look up the information on line or save the money  so that I can take my computer to a repair technician. 

Svcofield2, you are getting the right help here.  It takes wisdom, sometimes, to make a distinction between 'best' and 'right'.  I think that to his credit, Westom's ideas may be the 'best' solution, however given the circumstances, they may not be the 'right' solution.

There are some smart guys on here. You'll be getting your son's PC up on it's feet soon!

[westom]

Westrom, can I ask a personal question:  am I being too sensitive when I feel as if you are ridiculing me for not being comfortable using a multimeter?  

 If you see redicule, you are not being logical.   Defined is where to look, how to look, and why that diagnostic method is consistent with your symptoms.

 Does not matter what you actually did.  Your reply says you missed the point.  Swapping memory easily could have created more problems.  Does not matter what happened.  Point is you did not fear doing something more dangerous.  But you fear something even junior high school students use without fear.  

  If you don’t use the meter, then either keep replacing parts until something works, or take it to the shop.  You have been provided a best option that is also the only option to not fear.

  When someone posts facts, why do you instead entertain your emotions?  That make no sense to one who routinely solves things.

[Gizmologist]

[quote author=westom link=topic=86696.msg580458#msg580458

  Meter probe can touch anything and not cause damage – even to the meter.

Well, as a person who HAS worked on all types of electrical and electronic systems for 40 years,I can safely say that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say. A meter probe in ANYONES hands that shorts two pins together on most any IC, voltage regulator,  transistor, or parallel power rails WILL do damage. Some are short circuit protected but most are not.

In the hands of an untrained person who will not even be able to identify what they are touching or what the pin function is should NEVER be encouraged to go poking around in a live computer or anything else.

Learning by asking advice is not a bad thing. Poking around inside something that is foreign to you without the basics of electricity- both AC and DC- is not too bright.

You keep mentioning fear. Why I don't know. Caution is always a wise thing to exercise. If someone takes the "advice" that you are providing about poking around inside and sticking probes wherever, will YOU pay to replace the computer if it gets fried? Suppose the probes are in the MA or A jacks on the meter because the newbie doesn't understand the device and he destroys the computer. What then?

He did the right thing and came here to ask. He has been advised (by numerous folks) to try safe non tecchie things first to identify the problem if possible. Failing that, he should take the computer to a shop for expert analysis.

[quaxo]

Westom, I believe you've been messaged by a moderator asking you to not recommend the use of meters, especially to people who don't know how to use them.

[squall_01]

I lost the scope of what you have done an what not.  I started reading were carbon jumped in an got irrated just by looking at it.  Sorry to the poster I had to resolve matters here since there is a high chance of eletrical charges.  At any rate try booting the machine with out RAM.  Take out the HD leave it connected, do you feel any movement in it at all?  Also its very possible that something on the Motherboard could of shorted if the board dont see if there memory by beeping its a good chance something was shorted.  Hot swapping shouldnt be permitted unless its usb for this reason, in some events its okay but in the long run something like this can result.  We'll try an resolve your matter as soon as we can.

[Karnac]

"When a power supply works properly, voltages all fall within an acceptable range (plus or minus 10 per cent). However, be aware that even if measured voltage falls within the appropriate range, a power supply can still cause problems. This is because problems with power supplies can be intermittent - in other words, they come and go. Therefore, if the voltages are correct, you should still suspect the power supply is the problem when certain symptoms are present. To learn for certain whether the power supply is the problem, replace it with a unit you know is good."

CompTIA A+ Guide to Managing & Maintaining Your PC, 6TH Edition, page 1220 by Jean Andrews


This is what we're taught in school, and probably the best reason to swap in a known good power supply.

[svscofield2]

to all out there:  the usb ports are not connected so are useless,the ram has been installed for over 6 years, I do not know how to disconnect the hard drive to have it run "stand alone", nor do I know what hot swapping is.

[luck of the irish]

That is the wrong post, that is the graphics card problem relating to capacitors, this is a different post

And what if somebody accidentally spills a orange soda onto the motherboard? And how does a HD defect cause a capacitor on the video card to blow?

I'd say test the PSU output. This is a safe procedure; quite well documented in several PC repair books; if I may quote:

I think we've eliminated the other issues- and why would it be in a PC repair textbook if it was dangerous/unsafe, anyway?


Not sure of this was outlined anywhere but it goes on to specify what should be measured and how to go about it (backprobing).

[luck of the irish]

first of all, have you run memtest 86+ which is free software that you download

right click burn to CD as image

Put it in and tell it to bot from CD and this should test your ram

Also try the following to test hdd

start -> run -> cmd -> fsutil dirty query C:

[BC_Programmer]

That is the wrong post, that is the graphics card problem relating to capacitors, this is a different post

hahaha

woops.

What about the passaged quote? I think that was valid, if we're talking about PSU's- or really, almost any in-PC multimeter testing. Warranted, it may not be a good idea to recommend it to everybody (after all, not everybody, for example, learns how to install drywall, either- they get others to do it). But for enthusiasts it really doesn't present a bad option. For those who just "need it working"; It's not really that testing with a meter presents additional effort- but rather that it presents something "new" (that is, working on the PC interior with it powered up) Now, with that said, I've never had to measure it manually; I have experienced power issues but the problem and voltages were confirmed by BIOS readings, which, while not 100% accurate 100% of the time, can usually give a good view of how close to the tolerances the inputs are.

In this case- it was mentioned that they just want it to work again (paraphrased); I think in this case urgency might outweigh the potential learning experience.

[luck of the irish]

Yes, your reply was correct, if it is a power problem, it sounds to me that the RAM could be faulty. or the spindles are falling off the hdd.

[svscofield2]

With nothing showing up on the monitor, how can I run any tests involving seeing images on the monitor?  All I know is this:  before it crashed son heard beeping and unplugged mouse, I plugged mouse back in and rebooted "froze" computer, noted that there was nothing on the monitor and hdd light wasn't on, heard a lot of noises coming from the hdd as I attempted to get the pc operational, I reseated the ram.  That is the situation in a nutshell.

[Gizmologist]

At this point I would suggest you buy a new PSU and try it. If the existing unit is a 200 watt, get the next size up that will fit. There are beeping sounds made for several reasons. Without knowing exactly what the beeping was indicating, it is very hard to retro analyze.

A 400 watt PSU shouldn't run more than 40-50.00 at Best Buy. There are other sources available but BB usually has several on the shelf.

Look on the motherboard for a BIOS reset button. Not all boards have them, but many do.  This will basically take the computer to factory condition and wipe out all the specific settings.  Do you have a CD of the OS? You can reformat the hard drive to make a clean start of everything.

Changing out the PSU first though will not wipe out any data of files. Try that first.

I apologize for some of the more virulent advice given here by some. Many current "experts" forget that they too were newbies once. NO ONE starts off knowing all the tricks. We all learned by trial and error and advice from those before us.

Given the usage of the computer, I would take the fastest simplest method first. Try the new PSU. If that fails, then try the reset. If that fails it is time to let a pro look at it.

 But be sure to ask questions about what they found and how they corrected it.

[squall_01]

to all out there:  the usb ports are not connected so are useless,the ram has been installed for over 6 years, I do not know how to disconnect the hard drive to have it run "stand alone", nor do I know what hot swapping is.

Sorry I dont get a lot of time to do this stuff threw out the day so its rather hard sometimes.  That dont mean the usb ports wont work, that dont mean anything it can fail when ever its not if it fails its when it does.  I never said disconnect was refering to removeing it from the bay its self to see.  Hot swapping the process of changeing things like mice,keyboard or video monitoring cable while the pc is running.