Do not Put Linux on a New Laptop

[glsmaxx]

I just registered today and was scanning through some things that interest me.

I have been running Linux on 3 of my 4 computers for a year or more now. I have one [main pc] that I still dual boot 7 and Linux Manjaro XFCE on. I have 2 HDDs in it and run a USB HDD for backup on this machine. I still run Win7 for a few things like cell phone stuff, some offline programs that can only be run in Windows at this time.. The other machine I still have Windows on is a Win8 laptop. It came with UEFI and secure boot. I dual boot it. It is as easy to dual boot as the other dual boot system. One just has to read some documentation and I mean documentation from sources who know what they are talking about. Like Dual Booting it sounds much worse than it is!

IF YOU HAVE A MACHINE WITH UEFI AND/OR SECURE BOOT..... ALL YOU HAVE TO DO TO INSTALL LINUX IS DISABLE THEM. Simple as that. I could list 2 pages of links telling the same thing. Anyone who says different is just a tech newbie and needs to learn some things before he even messes with installing any OS. Windows included. Linux isn't for everyone. Linux is no harder to run than any other OS. There is just a great fear of it from people who haven't a clue. Just like anything else in life the unknown scares ya.

Linux Mint17, Zorin, and numerous other distros look more like Windows than Linux and make transitioning over a piece of cake. Trust me. I have run Ubuntu and most derivatives, Debian distros [which Ubuntu is from, RedHat distros, Open SUSE, you name it....I have been there and done that. I run Manjaro which is an ARCH based distro now and will probably be running it until something better comes out. I do not recommend it to a newbie especially someone who would think secure boot or UEFI is a Linux block...HAHA There are more complicated forms of Linux than Manjaro. I just like it for me and that's what Linux is all about..

IF someone needs more info about this topic feel free to PM me. I will be more than happy to help dispell the myths.

Have a nice Day!

[BC_Programmer]

Secure Boot works Out of the Box with Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS and 12.10 and Later, and most downstream distributions. (I would expect).

Manjaro's Wiki claims Secure Boot must be disabled. As an ArchLinux downstream you should be able to (assuming the install media isn't already configured properly) use Archboot to install with Secure Boot enabled via PrebootLoader.

As near as I can tell the only Distributions to support Secure Boot as part of their OOBE are Ubuntu (Above versions) Fedora 18+, and OpenSUSE 12.3. (And Arch Derived systems, if their media is built properly with archboot). I'm sure there are others. Not all versions will be capable and versions which do not support Secure Boot won't disable it (since that sort of defeats it's purpose), unless that is a feature of the system hardware, of course.


And how can you call yourself a serious Linux user and not have experienced the thrill of Gentoo Linux? 

[Geek-9pm]

Whenever  secure boot is easy to disable, it is not secure boot. That is self-evident and does not require  research or documentation. Look up the word secure and find it is never associates with something easy to defeat.

Telling people secure  boot  is quick and easy to disable is a  misnomer at best. Also,  telling the world how to  disable  a security feature is contrary to the basic rules of this forum. Furthermore, the Linux forums I read do not tell you to do that. Instead, the recommend getting a Linux Distro that works with secure boot.  That position was mentioned by Linus.

After I posted this topic earlier, I found places that recommend using a version pf Linux that complies with secure boot specs. Doing that, one can still have the benefits of secure boot on a laptop.
Which distros support UEFI and SecureBoot?

So yes, I was wrong. Now you can put Linux on a new laptop.

[camerongray]

glsmaxx - First of all, welcome!  You are totally correct, all you need to do is disable Secure Boot and as BC says, many modern distros support Secure Boot out of the box.  Geek-9pm has clearly never actually used a laptop with Secure Boot and has created this thread off of bits of information he has misunderstood.

Whenever  secure boot is easy to disable, it is not secure boot. That is self-evident and does not require  research or documentation. Look up the word secure and find it is never associates with something easy to defeat.

Why are you still trying to comment on Secure Boot - You clearly have no idea what it is, how to disable it or what it means by secure.  How about this, go and buy a laptop that isn't a million years old then you will see how easy secure boot is to disable?  Unless you do this you are purely guessing entirely off of the name "Secure Boot" and then giving completely incorrect and confusing advice to members here.

If you do not understand something fully, do not comment on it.

[Geek-9pm]

If you do not understand something fully, do not comment on it.

That can apply to anyone. Apparently you do not know which are easy and which are not. And provided a list of such would only promote laptop theft of vulnerable models.

It is not speculation or guess work  that laptop makers want to help reduce laptop theft.  Do you understand the issue? Eventually it will be very, very hard for a theft  to "wipe" a laptop using either a root kit or some other boot gable thing to remove the password. Linux was blocked out because it could be used that way.
But some Linux distros and now able to deal with the issue.

Please notice, I have admitted I was wrong. Linux is now available for  the advanced firmware in new laptops.

An NO. Secure boot is never easy to disable.  It is wrong to say that it is.




.

[camerongray]

This is getting ridiculous now...

And provided a list of such would only promote laptop theft of vulnerable models.

Please answer the following questions:

• What do you think Secure Boot is? - Hint: It is NOT anti theft or to prevent malicious users from erasing stolen laptops!
• Do you own a computer that has Secure Boot?
• Have you ever used a computer that has Secure Boot?

An NO. Secure boot is never easy to disable.  It is wrong to say that it is.

Wow... Just, wow...

You are just making this up as you go along.  Here are the steps to disable secure boot on an average laptop since you clearly have no idea:

• Turn on computer
• Enter BIOS/UEFI setup utility (as you would do on any pc made in the last 20+ years)
• Go to the security tab
• Go down to "Secure Boot"
• Press Enter
• Select "Disabled"
• Press Enter
• Save Settings and Exit

Please notice, I have admitted I was wrong. Linux is now available for  the advanced firmware in new laptops.

I did notice that, however you are STILL going on incorrectly about Secure Boot being difficult to disable (it isn't) and being anti theft (which it also isn't)

[BC_Programmer]

That can apply to anyone. Apparently you do not know which are easy and which are not. And provided a list of such would only promote laptop theft of vulnerable models.

Secure Boot has nothing to do with Anti-theft. It doesn't enter the equation. Secure boot is about making sure the boot loader software stored on the EFI partition for launching the OS is safe via signing. At no point during the boot process does it protect a system from being stolen.

It is not speculation or guess work  that laptop makers want to help reduce laptop theft.  Do you understand the issue? Eventually it will be very, very hard for a theft  to "wipe" a laptop using either a root kit or some other boot gable thing to remove the password. Linux was blocked out because it could be used that way.

Linux was never "blocked out". And Secure boot does nothing to prevent an OS from being reinstalled. Even if only one OS Loader is signed in the BIOS, you can still just reinstall that OS.

An NO. Secure boot is never easy to disable.  It is wrong to say that it is.

With the exception of Surface and a few tablets, Secure Boot is simple to disable. it's toggling a BIOS option. The OS will not need to be reinstalled (since Secure Boot merely extends UEFI and adds the stipulation that any Boot Loader be signed).

[Geek-9pm]

Secure Boot has nothing to do with Anti-theft

False.

[camerongray]

False.

What?  Explain this and find something online that backs this up.

Right now you are just making nonsense claims.

You also failed to answer the three simple questions that I asked you.

[Geek-9pm]

What?  Explain this and find something online that backs this up.
Right now you are just making nonsense claims.

No .
It is his absurd assertion. The burden is on him.

The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the imperative on a party in a trial to produce the evidence that will shift the conclusion away from the default position to one's own position.

[Tux2]

I have a dell laptop with SecureBoot (AKA UEFI). It was a simple matter of going into the bios and changing the option UEFI enabled: false. This has nothing to do with anti-theft. However, my laptop DOES have an option for Anti-Theft which I have never enabled, nor intend to.

[camerongray]

You are disputing his claim, the burden is totally on you to back your side of the argument up.

And you have still failed to answer my 3 questions.

Look, you know that you are wrong about what secure boot is, at least man up and admit it! Or are you just trolling?

[BC_Programmer]

No .
It is his absurd assertion. The burden is on him.

Actually, the burden of proof lies with the person making the initial claim; additionally, it typically lies with the person making the positive claim.

You are claiming that Secure Boot is somehow related to Anti-theft. This is a positive claim. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

You are trying to say that the burden of proof is on me to prove that you are false. That is inappropriately shifting the burden of proof- because you are the one who made the original claim, not I; my assertions to the fallacy of your original claim stand on their own without their own evidence until you provide your own that needs refutation.

[Tux2]

Secure boot options from my laptop:


Computrace (anti-theft settings) on my laptop:


As you can see the Secure Boot options are under the boot settings and are easily disabled. The Computrace, under the Security tab, once enabled is very difficult to disable.

[Geek-9pm]

Tux2,

Thank you very much for your contribution to this thread.

As you can see the Secure Boot options are under the boot settings and are easily disabled. The Computrace, under the Security tab, once enabled is very difficult to disable.

About 150,000 computers have Computrace. It is an Anti-Theft measure. Computrace says about 70% or more laptops are recovered.  While Intel will discontinue its anti-theft software, others will continue to have some such implementation in the firmware of select laptops.

BTW: I do no work for that company nor was it my intent to draw attention to their product. BC did that with his absurd assertion that Computrace did not exist and no computers had it. Thanks again to Tux2 for showing photos that indeed they are real.