Another I need help with buying a comp thread

[Sinkhan]

Like the name says, I'm another one of those people who needs help buying a new computer. I've saved up $1000, but could probably go about $100-300 over that at the very very most.

Hopefully with clearance sales here and there, I'll be able to save a few dollars.

I'll be using my computer for a few mid-ranged games like Medal of Honour, Battlefield 1942, and I'll probably be getting games like Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142 in the near future.[System specs in the links]  [Right now, I can't play MoH: AA or BF1942 since my comp is a 533Mhz Celeron, but I bought them both brand new for 5 dollars at a discount store and couldn't resist]

I'll want to play those games VERY well and possibly still be able to play a few games in the near future. So using these games as a guideline on basing my computer on, I've looked around for some parts.

Right now I'm looking at specs like these:

Core 2 Duo E6300 [Possibly 6400 or 6600 depends on pricing]
1 GB DDRII RAM (maybe 1.5)
At least 160GB SATAII HD
ATI X1600 Pro [GT maybe, pricing dependant]
A decent Motherboard I guess
Not too concerned with soundcard
16X DVD +/- RW writer [Quick question. Can these things run and burn DVDs and CDs?]
1.44 Floppy
At least a 19" LCD
Keyboard, Mouse
Win XP Pro

So what I need help with is:
How much would this set up cost? Separate parts bought? Packaged?
Should I replace any of the hardware I mentioned with something better/cheaper?
Anything else I'm forgetting?

I'm currently quite reluctant to buy parts separate off the internet and have it assembled since I live in Canada and NewEgg is American. That would mean slightly long wait times, higher than listed prices, and inconviences if I have to return.

So what does everyone say?

[GX1_Man]

So you are wanting a Canadian source for this? Maybe we have a Canadian around who can jump in and advise you on that.

[dl65]

LOL ......... How about Tiger Direct ....... located in Markham .....

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/indexca.asp?SRCCODE=TIGERUS&CMP=IL22454


dl65  

[GX1_Man]

Just the Canadian I was looking for!  

[Track]

Right now I'm looking at specs like these:

Core 2 Duo E6300 [Possibly 6400 or 6600 depends on pricing]
1 GB DDRII RAM (maybe 1.5)
At least 160GB SATAII HD
ATI X1600 Pro [GT maybe, pricing dependant]
A decent Motherboard I guess
Not too concerned with soundcard
16X DVD +/- RW writer [Quick question. Can these things run and burn DVDs and CDs?]
1.44 Floppy
At least a 19" LCD
Keyboard, Mouse
Win XP Pro

So what I need help with is:
How much would this set up cost? Separate parts bought? Packaged?
Should I replace any of the hardware I mentioned with something better/cheaper?
Anything else I'm forgetting?

Ok, let me just start off by saying that choosing the parts urself and having the PC constructed by a company or an individual is a very good idea. If u buy an already pre-built PC u will not be able to choose the parts, and that is crucial to my guide. Also, by choosing the parts, im going to save u a lot of money, so its best in any case.

CPU - E6400 (200$)
The Core 2 Duo family gives u the best performance available in the world, for only a few hundred dollars. The E6300 costs 25$ less, so its not a great idea to buy it because the whole goal is to overclock and it would be somewhat easier with the E6400 because of the added multipliers. The E6600 costs 100$ more and dosent give u even 25$ of extra performance.

RAM - 1GB DDR2-667 (85$)
1GB will do u for now. Do not buy a stick of 512MB, only 1024MB. When u feel like u want to, buy another 1GB of the same exact RAM. 667Mhz is important for the overclocking.

HDD - 250GB 16MB cache (75$)
250GB is currently the best value. You will be paying much less for every GB if u buy 250GB. Above 250GB the prices get higher for evey single GB, and the same for below. You can find the 250GB for only around 15$ more, and its worth every penny.

GPU - X1950XT/X1950Pro  7950GT/7900GS (250$/175$)
The Graphics card is the MOST important part of ur PC by FAR. Spend as much money on it as u possibly can. If u have to, save 25$ off of the E6400 and buy a GPU for 25$ more!
The X1600 costs 100$ or more, and its abt 1/5 of even the 7900 GS. Not to mention ur going to need a better card for a 19"+ monitor, but u should spend as much as POSSIBLE on the graphics card in any case.

Now the cards ive lined up for u are ATI on the left side and nVidia on the right. Why is this important? You have to choose beetween the 2 companies so that i can get u a motherboard that fits.

Motherboard - ECS PA1 MVP/ECS NFORCE 570 SLIT-A (75$/85$)
The former is for ATI and the latter is for nVidia. Choose the card u want and then the motherboard upon the card.

SoundCard - onboard (0$)
You dont have to worry abt the sound card as all current motherboards have an onboard soundcard that takes from performance, but not with a Core 2 Duo.

Optical Drive - DVD-RW (25$)
Any DVD-RW will do. DVD burners are both DVD and CD burners, and at 25$ today its a great value to buy even 2 of these. Yes, they can play DVDs (DVD-R, as in READ), and burn DVDs (DVD-W, as in write). Together u have DVD-RW, wich is also CD-RW.

PSU - Thermaltake Toughpower 550w/600w (125$/175$)
If u buy the toughpower 550w, u will only be able to power a single graphics card, and u will need the ability to power 2 at some point. If u buy the 650w u will be set for 2 cards. So ur choices are like this - buy the 550w right now for 125$ and then buy an extra PSU just for the extra graphics card for another 50$, or just buy the 600w for 175$ combined right now. And yes, the difference beetween the 2 is huge, despite it being only 50w on the surface.

Monitor - SAMSUNG 225BW Black 22" 5 ms (380$)
Youre going to want a larger than 19" monitor. 20.1 is nice, but the prices for 22" are not very much higher and the prices for 24" are a lot higher. My pick is the Samsung because of it's beautiful design and brand name. There are however more 22" monitors for as low as 300$, if u want to save 50-80$.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2010190020+131061713+1309822582&Subcategory=20&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=

Operating System - Windows XP Pro (0-200$)
You can download it for free, or pay 200$ for it. Your choice.


Price of the PC u built - 675$ + monitor (not including Windows)
Price of the PC I built - 850$ + monitor

The PC I built for u is 25% more expensive, with the worth of a PC over 100% more expensive.

Its not going to cost very much to have it constructed for u, once u have picked the parts.

If u have any furthur questions, or want me to elaborate on any part, please say so.  

Enjoy!

[Sinkhan]

Wow, that was a pretty elaborate explanation. Thanks. However, there are still a few things I'm concerned with:

First of all, are these prices in CDN of American dollars?

CPU: I'm going to try and avoid getting the E6300 or 6400 mainly because I could double my cache and get a nice boost in clock speed with the 6600. Also, I'm not that good with overclocking, but then again, I could try.

GPU: Again, is that CDN or American? Anyways, now that I've looked at some benchmarks and some other details on the cards, and really, I think that the X1800 or even the X1600 will still suffice for what I'll be doing for the time being I'm sticking to about 19", perhaps 20". The monitor size isn't a huge factor for me. But the main thing is that by mid-next year, new games and Vista will be based off of DX10, and as of now, not even the X1950 XT will do me any good at that point as it won't support it. I'd rather wait awhile, get an ok card like the X1600 (or the X800 if I really need to) and then upgrade later.

Monitor: Like I said above, a 19" will be just fine for me, but if I find a good deal, I might go for 20" or 22" like you said. But, I did find a few 19" LCDs from Samsung that had an 8ms refresh rate and were only about $240 and another one from Acer with a 5ms refresh rate, 700:1 contrast, for only $230

Power Source: I don't think I'll be getting two cards any time soon, if at all.

Now, It's possible that I might buy from a small retailer and then have them assemble it for me, but then again, there might be a chance that I'll buy from TigerDirect

When I looked at TigerDirect, I saw that their prices were quite high. The 6600 is $400, the 6400 is $290. The X1600 Pro is going to cost $210 and the 1950XTX is $571. I saw an ad from a computer place that sells computers where you pick parts from their catalogue and then they assemble it. I've seen this set up from them as a special package:

Core 2 Duo 6600
1GB DDR 535M RAM
320 GB 16M Seagate HD
LG 16x DVD+/- RW
ATI X1600Pro 512M
19" Samsung 8ms LCD

Keyboard Mouse, etc

$1208

However, TigerDirect says that their parts are brand new and that they don't sell "pulls" or old parts from old systems, but then again, I'm pretty sure that there aren't many used Core 2 Duos.

This has got me all confused...

[GX1_Man]

Track, probably some direct sources for those prices would be helpful, Canadian or not.

[homer]

http://www.ncix.com

canadian based company, so all prices are in CAD.

[GX1_Man]

The processor alone is $302 Canadian, $261 American at that site vs Track's quote of $200, presumably US funds.

I don't know where he is buying DVD-RW drives for $25 in any fund.

[Track]

First of all, are these prices in CDN of American dollars?

USD.

CPU: I'm going to try and avoid getting the E6300 or 6400 mainly because I could double my cache and get a nice boost in clock speed with the 6600. Also, I'm not that good with overclocking, but then again, I could try.

If u dont want to overclock then all the E6600 has over the E6400/E6300 is cache (wich does nothing).
If u DO want to overclock, then either of those will get to 3.0Ghz and anything above 3.0Ghz dosent add to performance a whole lot. If u must, buy the E6600, but its a 100$ u can put into the graphics card.
Remmember - E6420 will be out soon and it will have 4MB of cache.

GPU: Again, is that CDN or American? Anyways, now that I've looked at some benchmarks and some other details on the cards, and really, I think that the X1800 or even the X1600 will still suffice for what I'll be doing for the time being I'm sticking to about 19", perhaps 20". The monitor size isn't a huge factor for me. But the main thing is that by mid-next year, new games and Vista will be based off of DX10, and as of now, not even the X1950 XT will do me any good at that point as it won't support it. I'd rather wait awhile, get an ok card like the X1600 (or the X800 if I really need to) and then upgrade later.

If u want to buy a mid-range graphics card for now, until DX10, thats fine.
The X800GTO is my reccomendation - much better than X1600 and for only 100$.

I did not explain abt SLi/Crossfire, see PSU*

Monitor: Like I said above, a 19" will be just fine for me, but if I find a good deal, I might go for 20" or 22" like you said. But, I did find a few 19" LCDs from Samsung that had an 8ms refresh rate and were only about $240 and another one from Acer with a 5ms refresh rate, 700:1 contrast, for only $230

Once u buy the 19" u wont be able to upgrade to 22", choose wisely. 8ms is the minimum and dont worry abt contrast or brightness. It dosent really matter what company its from..

Power Source: I don't think I'll be getting two cards any time soon, if at all.

The whole point of getting a motherboard that supports a dual-card setup is so that u can now buy a single card, and then later on when the card has gotten lower in price, buy another one and hook them up together.
Buy a PSU that supports only a SINGLE card now, and another Addon PSU just for the second graphics card, once u choose to buy it.

Search for the items I listed on Canadian e-tailer sites if u want, but dosent Newegg ship to Canada?
I can give u the Newegg.com links to all the items ive listed. Would u like that?

[Track]

The processor alone is $302 Canadian, $261 American at that site vs Track's quote of $200, presumably US funds.

I don't know where he is buying DVD-RW drives for $25 in any fund.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Order=PRICE&Page=1&Category=10&N=2010100005+1036506653&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&Subcategory=5

[GX1_Man]

Well that's not $25, but it is only 20% more. On the other hand you were only off 10% on the processor.

[homer]

touchè

[Track]

Well that's not $25, but it is only 20% more. On the other hand you were only off 10% on the processor.

GX1_Man: "Life is far too short for that."

[GX1_Man]

I'm not sure what that is about. My point was in trying to show a source to go along with the prices you are mentioning when you make recommendations as budget is an issue in some cases, especially when compounded by multiple computer components.

[Sinkhan]

Again, thanks Track for all the advice.
But still, I've got some issues:

1. Could you, or anyone else, tell me how the X800GTO is better than the X1600Pro (other than in price)?
2. Why can't I upgrade from a 19" monitor? (Althought I still doubt I'll want to.
3. What's a good mtrbrd that supports dual-card set-ups? And is it that only for the SLI/Crossfire cards?

Perhaps I will just settle for an E6400 and then overclock it slightly and carefully. My friend tried overclocking his P4 and his comp got all messed up.

Even if Newegg ships to Canada, there just might be the chance that there might be a problem with the product and then I'd have to return and get a new part shipped back to me. If I do order direct (if[ I do), then I'll get it from TigerDrct Canada. Still I think I like this setup:

Core 2 Duo 6600
1GB DDR 535M RAM
320 GB 16M Seagate HD
LG 16x DVD+/- RW
ATI X1600Pro 512M
19" Samsung 8ms LCD

For just $1208. Also, I could get the E6400 for $1118. And maybe get the X800GTO like you mentioned.

However, isn't the X850 even better and still around $100?

[homer]

Track, there is no shame in admitting you are wrong. everyone knows that we as humans are not perfect, everyone makes mistakes.

[Track]

Track, there is no shame in admitting you are wrong. everyone knows that we as humans are not perfect, everyone makes mistakes.

When u ask for something that u think is hard to give - make an effort to explain what that is..

[street1 (RIP)]

Track, there is no shame in admitting you are wrong. everyone knows that we as humans are not perfect, everyone makes mistakes.

When u ask for something that u think is hard to give - make an effort to explain what that is..

                                                ' WOTW'
You my friends are becoming a 'pernicious' group of people. :-?

Bread and Water Please!..................Sylvester Needs A Psychiatrist.

Acronym...........SNAP!

[Track]

1. Could you, or anyone else, tell me how the X800GTO is better than the X1600Pro (other than in price)?

The X800GTO is an awesome card. At stock settings it is already better than the 7600 GT (wich is a lot better than even the X1600XT), but it's potential that makes it great.
You could unlock the X800GTO's pipelines, turning it into an X850XT and overclock it into an X850XT PE.
That way u spend 100$ and get over 150$ in return.

2. Why can't I upgrade from a 19" monitor? (Althought I still doubt I'll want to.

Once u have a monitor, u cannot simply upgrade it to a larger size - u would have to sell it and buy another.

3. What's a good mtrbrd that supports dual-card set-ups? And is it that only for the SLI/Crossfire cards?

I have listed the 2 best motherboard for SLi/Crossfire, wich are the only dual-card set ups.

Perhaps I will just settle for an E6400 and then overclock it slightly and carefully. My friend tried overclocking his P4 and his comp got all messed up.

Either the E6400 now, or the E4300 in a month. E4300 (130$) = E6700 (500$)

Even if Newegg ships to Canada, there just might be the chance that there might be a problem with the product and then I'd have to return and get a new part shipped back to me. If I do order direct (if[ I do), then I'll get it from TigerDrct Canada. Still I think I like this setup:

The chances that a product will arrive broken or damaged, and thus un-usable is very small.
I would not count on it at all, but the price u would have to pay for RMA is not high either.. even to Canada.

Core 2 Duo 6600
1GB DDR 535M RAM
320 GB 16M Seagate HD
LG 16x DVD+/- RW
ATI X1600Pro 512M
19" Samsung 8ms LCD


For just $1208. Also, I could get the E6400 for $1118. And maybe get the X800GTO like you mentioned.

However, isn't the X850 even better and still around $100?

That PC is not worth 1200$ in any way. The one I built is far better and actually costs less.

[Neil]

Not all X800GTO can be unlocked, so it's not a smart thing to rely upon. I have an x1600XT and I'm satisfied with its performance. It's not the best card, but plays games at good detail.

[street1 (RIP)]

S-ylvester

N-eeds

A-

P-sychiatrist
!

                                           SNAP! :-?

[Track]

Not all X800GTO can be unlocked, so it's not a smart thing to rely upon. I have an x1600XT and I'm satisfied with its performance. It's not the best card, but plays games at good detail.

Every X800GTO can be unlocked. There is always a faulty 1-3% but thats not un-like any other card.

[Sinkhan]

I'm pretty sure that the 4300 wouldn't be as good as the 6700. If you accounting for the fact that it will be overclockable to a bit higher than the 6700, the 6700 could itself be overclocked.

I guess I might try the X800GTO, but I'm not sure how to do all that pipeline unlocking and what not you talked about. I don't know that much about hardware. And Again, I don't want to order from Newegg.
Just because.

[homer]

When u ask for something that u think is hard to give - make an effort to explain what that is..

this is a rough translation, but im guessing what you meant to say is, you are not quite sure what a im referring to. i am reffering to your many dodges, ducks, and bends of when someone corrects you. instead of apologizing, admiting you were wrong, or even correcting yourself, you either warp your words to fit your needs or go way off topic with some obtuse statement. then once someone challenges your off topic statement or "clever" deviation of words, you either ignore them or make an attempt to sound intelligent by using almost proper grammar and sentence structure such as the above quote. please knock of the charade and admit defeat once in a while. no one is invincible.

[street1 (RIP)]

S-ylvester


                N-eeds



                                         A
                                    


                                                             P-sychiatrist



                                                                                          !


                                    

                                [size=36]SNAP![/size]

[Track]

I'm pretty sure that the 4300 wouldn't be as good as the 6700. If you accounting for the fact that it will be overclockable to a bit higher than the 6700, the 6700 could itself be overclocked.

At stock speeds the E4400* is only 2.0Ghz, while the E6700 is 2.66Ghz.
The E4400 has a 10x multiplier and the E6700 has a 10x multiplier.
What does this mean? That they can overclock to the EXACT same speeds.
And since the E4400 should cost 133$ while the E6700 costs over 500$, i think u can see why the E4400 or E4300 for that matter, since it can overclock way past 3.0Ghz aswell (wich is all that matters), are much better than the E6700, wich is a horrible waste of money.

I guess I might try the X800GTO, but I'm not sure how to do all that pipeline unlocking and what not you talked about. I don't know that much about hardware. And Again, I don't want to order from Newegg.
Just because.

There are numerous online guides and the whole process dosent take more than 5 mins.

[Track]

When u ask for something that u think is hard to give - make an effort to explain what that is..

this is a rough translation, but im guessing what you meant to say is, you are not quite sure what a im referring to. i am reffering to your many dodges, ducks, and bends of when someone corrects you. instead of apologizing, admiting you were wrong, or even correcting yourself, you either warp your words to fit your needs or go way off topic with some obtuse statement. then once someone challenges your off topic statement or "clever" deviation of words, you either ignore them or make an attempt to sound intelligent by using almost proper grammar and sentence structure such as the above quote. please knock of the charade and admit defeat once in a while. no one is invincible.

Well, thats a heck of a theory.. but where is the proof. If u did not understand, that is what i asked for in the post u were trying to decifer.

Edit: Are u attacking me, saying that i think im always right, because i said the ODD costs 25$ when it costs 30$??

[homer]

[size=20]Proof:[/size]  

#1

Track

Re: Another I need help with buying a comp thread
Reply #13 - Dec 20th, 2006, 3:11am
Quote from GX1_Man on Dec 19th, 2006, 6:28pm:
Well that's not $25, but it is only 20% more. On the other hand you were only off 10% on the processor.


 GX1_Man: "Life is far too short for that."

oblique statement.

GX1_Man

Re: Another I need help with buying a comp thread
Reply #14 - Dec 20th, 2006, 3:35am
I'm not sure what that is about. My point was in trying to show a source to go along with the prices you are mentioning when you make recommendations as budget is an issue in some cases, especially when compounded by multiple computer components.

GX1_Man challenges your statement and corrects you. You ignore him. End of disscusion.

------------------------------------------

#2

Track

Completely untrue. Many companies will let u choose the parts u want and buld the PC for u, its very simple. All u need is someone to tell u what to put in it, and he has us for that.

making a false statement about building computers.

Homer

then its not "building your own" is it.............  

challenging your statement and correcting you.

Track

Of course it is. I just helped a friend "build" his PC. That means i helped him choose the parts he wanted other than have them chosen by a company who knows nothing of his wants.
 
The actuall "construction" of the PC is completely irrelevent to this discussion - the whole point is choosing the parts by urself, or "building" the PC virtually.

you warping your words to fit your needs to make an attempt to sound correct.

Homer

no its still is not building your own PC. you may have freedom to choose what parts you would like installed, but you are paying someone else to piece it all together for you. maybe you are misunderstanding; calum's statement regards building the pc from start to finish, from screwing in all the screws to installing the OS and all the drivers. this is definitly not for someone who does not have good knowledge about computers.

me challenging your last statement and correcting you further.

Track

Yes, "buying a custom PC" means "building it virtually" and the physical building process is what i call "constructing the PC". This would also include setting up the software, not only the hardware.

trying to justify your incorrect statement by using synonyms.

Homer

not that i intend to drag this small argument on longer, but heres an online dictionary Track, it will do you good to read it.
 
http://www.answers.com/topic/construct
http://www.answers.com/build

me correcting you even further by clarifying that both constuct and build are synomonous. You ingnore me. End of disscusion.

-----------------------------------------

#3

i cannot quote you on this because it seems your posts have been deleted. however, i have a fairly good memory. please feel free to correct me.

Homer

as far as i know diablo 1 is not abondonware, therefore downloading the game would be illegal. im sorry, but we cannot help you with this problem.

Track

You can probably download it from a Bittorrent site.Homer CHOOSES to pay for software.

blatantly going against Computer Hope regulations.

Homer

i have not chosen anything. i am merely following computer hope guidelines. maybe you should refresh your memory http://www.computerhope.com/under.htm.

me reminding you of our guidelines.

Track

Dont be a tool.

completely irrelevant to my previous post. as any mature person would follow regulations.

Homer

Dont post anything that goes against our guidelines.

me CLEARLY stating to follow the rules. You ignore me. End of disscusion

----------------------------------------

#4

Track

The ONLY thing that matters in gaming, and that has propelled the market forward has been graphics.
Graphics are what drive the entire market and they are all that everyone look for in games.

making an incorrect statement unsupported by any facts.

Homer

really? sorry if i disagree, but there are many games that are better then newer games despite the newer games better graphics. for instance, halo and halo2. many people did not like halo2 and refused to play it despite its better graphics.http://www.halo2sucks.com/. there are many more games in the same situation, however, i am tired and do not care to list them all.

me challenging your statement and providing examples.

Track

Instead of being afraid of how ppl might respond, lets both write down what we believe to be true as the truth without flaming or regard for another person's beliefs.

completey and utterly foolish. need i say more?

Homer

it is not "being afraid", it is a simple case of having respect for others who may share a different view. it is also for when one does object to your statement, it doenst make you look like a lying fool

me clarifying my intentions as well as giving you a piece of advice. you ignore me. End of disscusion.

---------------------------------------------

there are more i can dig up if you would like some more evidence. feel free to dispute this if you would like.

[Track]

Completely arbitrary and wrong rejectment of Everything that I have said with absolutely nothing incriminating.

Track

Just because u think something is right dosen't make it so

Me pointing out how stupid u are.


Hopefully this vicious and pathetic attack has has diminished the hate u seem to have towards me.

"End of Discussion"

[GX1_Man]

Well, I don't see this as an attack. How about working toward a logical resolution of the differences?

The "Proph" thing to do is announce that one is going to take their toys and go home. I think this discussion has merit, as long as egos don't get in the way.  

Me pointing out how stupid u are.

Name calling is not the way to go there, Track.

[homer]

Track i never said you were a criminal, nor do i hate you. i would just like to see you claim responsibility for your own words and accept the fact that you are wrong sometimes. i have not seen one apology, one correction, or one word admitting you were wrong. instead you tend to argue on and on, and then try to backup your statements, and if your statements cannot possibly be backed up, you try and justify them.

Just because u think something is right dosen't make it so

maybe not, but i know just enough about life to differentiate between right and wrong. i know where i stand, and if one makes a statement or acts in a way i think is wrong, i will object to it.

Me pointing out how stupid u are.

please, emphasize on this. how do you think im stupid?


also, my last post was NOT a "viscious and pathetic" attack on you. i merely gave you the evidence that you so desired. Track, please, all i ask for is that you start taking responsiblity for your own words.

[Sinkhan]

Hey...can we sort of stop this? All I wanted was some advice on buying a computer. Not to start a riot.

Let's go from the beginning and start over, shall we? That'd be nice.

Anyways, I'm still unsure as to what processor or vid card I should get. I've already ironed out my PC to something like this:

CPU (Undecided)
Motherboard (Depandant on CPU and GPU)
1 GB 667 Mhz DDR2 RAM
250 GB SATAII 16MB HD (Seagate, W.D, Maxtor. Does brand really matter?
Video Card (Undecided)
DVD +/- RW
19" 8ms or lower refresh rate (Samsung, LG, Benq)
Mouse, K.B, speakers etc...

CPU: I'm really starting to consider the AMD X2 4600+ Dual Core. It's about $10 cheaper than the Core 2 Duo E6400 and it's almost universally accepted that AMDs are the choice for a gaming PC, which I guess is what my computer is going to do seeing as I'm not going to be doing much work with movies or such.

However, I'm not too familiar with the AMD line so could someone give me a quick rundown of the pros and cons of the X2 Dual-Core line compared to the Core 2 Duo along with maybe if it's worth getting a 2000 Mhz FSB at the loss of 1 MB of L2 cache compared to the Intel Chips.

GPU: Again, it seems like I'm going to lean towards nVidia's GeForce over the Radeon series. What would be a mid-ranged ard with a comparable price and power to the X1600 (of course, if the price is the same and the power is higher, then of course I'll take that suggestion   )? I'm looking at the 7600 GS/GT (BTW, is GT or GS better?)

But for whichever way I go, does it really matter what manufacturer I choose? It looks like Diamond is good for ATI and BFG for nVidia, and Asus for both.

Thanks for all the advice up to now.

[homer]

my apologizes Sinkhan. track and i will continue our discussion via PM.

[Sinkhan]

That's alright.

Does anyone else have some suggestions for CPU, GPU and then an appropriate mtrbd for both? I'm planning on buying my computer on the 26th since it's boxing day and most places have deals.

[Neil]

I'm pretty sure that the 4300 wouldn't be as good as the 6700. If you accounting for the fact that it will be overclockable to a bit higher than the 6700, the 6700 could itself be overclocked.

At stock speeds the E4400* is only 2.0Ghz, while the E6700 is 2.66Ghz.
The E4400 has a 10x multiplier and the E6700 has a 10x multiplier.
What does this mean? That they can overclock to the EXACT same speeds.
And since the E4400 should cost 133$ while the E6700 costs over 500$, i think u can see why the E4400 or E4300 for that matter, since it can overclock way past 3.0Ghz aswell (wich is all that matters), are much better than the E6700, wich is a horrible waste of money.

I don't understand how this works. I thought the multiplier was how many times faster the CPU was than a base amount (FSB). From what I can deduce the E4400 would be 200Mhz x 10 = 2.00Ghz and the E6700 would be 266Mhz x 10 = 2.66Ghz. I don't really see how having the same multiplier means that they can both overclock to the exact same speeds. I would have thought the E6700 would give more performance per each multiplier than the E4400? And a super multiplier is not very useful with a slow FSB, so raw clock speed is not all that matters. I thought graphics cards were all that mattered anyway..

[Track]

I'm pretty sure that the 4300 wouldn't be as good as the 6700. If you accounting for the fact that it will be overclockable to a bit higher than the 6700, the 6700 could itself be overclocked.

At stock speeds the E4400* is only 2.0Ghz, while the E6700 is 2.66Ghz.
The E4400 has a 10x multiplier and the E6700 has a 10x multiplier.
What does this mean? That they can overclock to the EXACT same speeds.
And since the E4400 should cost 133$ while the E6700 costs over 500$, i think u can see why the E4400 or E4300 for that matter, since it can overclock way past 3.0Ghz aswell (wich is all that matters), are much better than the E6700, wich is a horrible waste of money.

I don't understand how this works. I thought the multiplier was how many times faster the CPU was than a base amount (FSB). From what I can deduce the E4400 would be 200Mhz x 10 = 2.00Ghz and the E6700 would be 266Mhz x 10 = 2.66Ghz. I don't really see how having the same multiplier means that they can both overclock to the exact same speeds. I would have thought the E6700 would give more performance per each multiplier than the E4400? And a super multiplier is not very useful with a slow FSB, so raw clock speed is not all that matters. I thought graphics cards were all that mattered anyway..

You can overclock the FSB. Thats the whole point.

[Track]

CPU: I'm really starting to consider the AMD X2 4600+ Dual Core. It's about $10 cheaper than the Core 2 Duo E6400 and it's almost universally accepted that AMDs are the choice for a gaming PC, which I guess is what my computer is going to do seeing as I'm not going to be doing much work with movies or such.

However, I'm not too familiar with the AMD line so could someone give me a quick rundown of the pros and cons of the X2 Dual-Core line compared to the Core 2 Duo along with maybe if it's worth getting a 2000 Mhz FSB at the loss of 1 MB of L2 cache compared to the Intel Chips.

The Core 2 Duo series is by far better than the Athlon 64 X2 series. For a long time the Athlon 64 and 64 X2 CPUs have dominated gaming with their superior performance in comparison to Pentiums.
But now, 5 months after their release, ppl who once has Athlons in their PCs are starting to be aware of the wonder that is Core 2 Duos.

The E6400 is abt as powerfull as the FX-60, wich is more powerfull than any Athlon 64 X2.
The E6400 can overclock to speeds of above 3.2Ghz, effectively making it the most powerfull CPU on earth.

No AMD CPU can compete with the Core 2 Duos, and i believe i have been saying that for a while.

GPU: Again, it seems like I'm going to lean towards nVidia's GeForce over the Radeon series. What would be a mid-ranged ard with a comparable price and power to the X1600 (of course, if the price is the same and the power is higher, then of course I'll take that suggestion   )? I'm looking at the 7600 GS/GT (BTW, is GT or GS better?)

X1600 Pro = 7300 GT
X1650 XT = 7600 GT

X800GTO - 100$
X1800GTO - 120$
7900 GS - 175$
X1950 Pro - 200$
X1950XT - 250$

Those are ur choices. 7600 GT is abt 140$+ and its not even close to any of the GPUs with mentioned prices.

But for whichever way I go, does it really matter what manufacturer I choose? It looks like Diamond is good for ATI and BFG for nVidia, and Asus for both.

Thanks for all the advice up to now.

Choose the cheapest one, as it really dosent matter.

[Track]

Track i never said you were a criminal, nor do i hate you. i would just like to see you claim responsibility for your own words and accept the fact that you are wrong sometimes. i have not seen one apology, one correction, or one word admitting you were wrong. instead you tend to argue on and on, and then try to backup your statements, and if your statements cannot possibly be backed up, you try and justify them.

Just because u think something is right dosen't make it so

maybe not, but i know just enough about life to differentiate between right and wrong. i know where i stand, and if one makes a statement or acts in a way i think is wrong, i will object to it.

Me pointing out how stupid u are.

please, emphasize on this. how do you think im stupid?


also, my last post was NOT a "viscious and pathetic" attack on you. i merely gave you the evidence that you so desired. Track, please, all i ask for is that you start taking responsiblity for your own words.

Alright this is getting eratating..

First u tell me that u think u see me being wrong and not saying so..
Alright, if u have the proof then i guess i will admit to being wrong.. i have no problem with that.

But u dont have any proof.. u just write stuff down with nothing to back it up.

Then i ask for proof and u give me a 12 page article where u arbitrarily discard my quotes. You just say "no, thats not right", "nope, that was a wrong statement" and "there u are being wrong AGAIN".

So then i tell u that just because u think im wrong, and just because u think that i dont apologize for being wrong DOSENT MAKE IT SO!

Do u know what proof is? Its where u show that i was wrong and did not apologize being a reasonable doubt.. not u saying "there! there u should have said u were sorry". If i dont agree to that then all it is is arbitrary and pointless and it looks like an attack on me.


So OBVIOUSLY talking to u is pointless. Not only that but where do u get the nerve to come to me and tell me that im wrong and that i dont apologize??

I know more abt PC hardware then anyone else on this forum and i only try to help.. try and do a very good job of it. So for u to just come to me and accuse me of not saying that i was sorry abt saying that something costs 25$ when it actually costs 30$ and then trying to brake down my personality and saying "after u lie u start talking with good grammer" is completely out of line!.. well gee maybe u have a hard time understand it but i always have good grammer.


So im sick of this, and im sick of ur accusations. If u dont like something that i said and its not braking the precious forum rules, u can take it up with someone else. "stealing is wrong", again i dont care what u think.

Some ppl..  

[homer]

my apologizes Sinkhan. [highlight]track and i will continue our discussion via PM.[/highlight]

[GX1_Man]

[highlight]I know more abt PC hardware then anyone else on this forum [/highlight]and i only try to help.. try and do a very good job of it. So for u to just come to me and accuse me of not saying that i was sorry abt saying that something costs 25$ when it actually costs 30$ and then trying to brake down my personality and saying "after u lie u start talking with good grammer" is completely out of line!.. well gee maybe u have a hard time understand it but i always have good grammer.

Track, you are the one being ridiculous about this whole thing and the statement above is a perfect example of your ego getting in the way of your facts. Remember less than two months ago when you were scared to even try to change out a power supply?

http://www.computerhope.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1163808835

Here's the gist of it:

My question is this - what are the chances of me, err ah.. not burning into a fukcing crisp while trying to install the new PSU? I was told "DONT GO NEAR THE PSU.. idiot" because its dangeous (something with volts and amps.. its all very technical), but im too proud.... and cheap, to get someone else to do it.. so can anyone give me a ball-park estimate here?

Your response to those trying to help seemed out of line also.

SO clearly you are NOT the most knowledgable person about PC hardware on the forum. In my lifetime I have noted that anyone who states they are an expert about anything usually isn't. It is usually others who can make this statement accurately.

It's ironic you talk about good grammar, but read that last sentence in the first quote above one more time:

and then trying to brake down my personality and saying "after u lie u start talking with good grammer" is completely out of line!.. well gee maybe u have a hard time understand it but i always have good grammer.

The grammar used is, in fact, poor, to say the least, but I am not not here to be your English teacher. Just accept the fact that you are mistaken on this count also. There are at least seven errors in one sentence. This one isn't even debatable.

I think this is all that Homer was referring to with the "admitting you are wrong and just taking responsibility for your words" remarks he made.

We appreciate the knowledge you do have, Chris, but please leave the ego at the door. It doesn't become you, and your tirades and name calling like above are not fitting for the Christmas season especially, and probably not ever. Take a deep breath and think this one through.

And now back to the original thread, which is already in progress.

Peace on earth. Good will towards men. Merry Christmas.

[Sinkhan]

I never thought my humble visit to these forums would cause such trouble...

Anyways, I've sifted through most of the catalogues and what not from a company that I find is fairly cheap and has good policies. I've come down to two systems:

A custom built one with separate parts all chosen:

AMD X2 4200+ Dual-Core ($199.99)
ASUS M2N-E nForce 570 ($112.99)
Western Digital 250GB SATAII 16M ($88.99)
Kingston 1GB DDR2 667Mhz RAM ($139.99)
BFG NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS 256 MB ($179.99)
19" LCD Samsung Monitor ($199.99)
FOXCONN TLA-776 w/ 400W PSU (ATX Supported) ($39.99)
$20 Modem
$10 Disk Drive
$30 Assembly

+14% Taxes

OR

This System from the same company as a special offer for $599.99 plus $200 monitor. I plan to add a stick of 512 MB RAM and see if I can change the 3800+ to a 4200+

So, which offer should I get?

BTW, these are all Canadian dollars so I really don't want to be flamed on how expensive these computers are or how I'm getting ripped off.

Thanks everyone

[Track]

I believe I have already stated that I am in fact studying English, and yes I do believe that my English is no where near "poor". If your point is that I can make mistakes some times when people get on my nerves, then you really havn't said much, and for a person who hasn't spoken or wrote much English up until recently for 7 years (or since the 5th grade) I think I have done pretty darn well.

No one understood the PSU remark, I don't know why. It was a joke, and I was of course never trying to hurt anyone. Moreover I actually have learned a lifetime's worth of knowledge regarding PSUs in the last few weeks because I have taken it on myself to find the best PSU for my PC. Thats how I work.

I am in no way egotistical when I claim to be the most knowleged man amongst you, when it comes to PC hardware, and I will say over again that I do NOT know everything, I DO continue to learn everyday and I do NOT think that I am never wrong, and if I am wrong I will admit it because there is no point otherwise. But when I have written an entire article about something and someone comes up to me and tells me that I am wrong about a stupid little fact (wich I am not) and then claims that I "never" confess to being wrong (as if he knows me at all) is rude, uncalled for and a vicious and un-just attack, wich I will NOT accept.

Hopefully everyone is appeased. I only want the best for all, Happy Hanuka!

-Chris

[Track]

I never thought my humble visit to these forums would cause such trouble...

Anyways, I've sifted through most of the catalogues and what not from a company that I find is fairly cheap and has good policies. I've come down to two systems:

A custom built one with separate parts all chosen:

AMD X2 4200+ Dual-Core ($199.99)
ASUS M2N-E nForce 570 ($112.99)
Western Digital 250GB SATAII 16M ($88.99)
Kingston 1GB DDR2 667Mhz RAM ($139.99)
BFG NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS 256 MB ($179.99)
19" LCD Samsung Monitor ($199.99)
FOXCONN TLA-776 w/ 400W PSU (ATX Supported) ($39.99)
$20 Modem
$10 Disk Drive
$30 Assembly

+14% Taxes

OR

This System from the same company as a special offer for $599.99 plus $200 monitor. I plan to add a stick of 512 MB RAM and see if I can change the 3800+ to a 4200+

So, which offer should I get?

BTW, these are all Canadian dollars so I really don't want to be flamed on how expensive these computers are or how I'm getting ripped off.

Thanks everyone

Problems are like mistakes - they are positive as long as they are resolved.

It is on the fortune of the stupid that they shall not enjoy the riches of the smart man, for he knows what is good.. But I cannot see u buying that AMD processor. Core 2 Duo is the only way to go.