Perfered Programming Language

[Dias de verano]

Hate to burst your bubble, macdad.
But i believe you mean "Preferred"?

Be careful! I got a right bollocking on here once for daring to correct someone's spelling. I agree that "perfered" is pretty ridiculous.

[reaper_tbs]

A bollocking doesn't sound too pleasant..
No offense intended in having corrected your spelling, captain mac_daddy.
I probably shouldn't post anything else on this issue in case i get done for "spamming for posts".

[BC_Programmer]

Hey wait doesnt Runescape run on Java?

Actually it runs on "computers". "java" is a "programming" language.

well, to correct myself, it technically runs on a JVM which runs on computers...

I searched the 'net for asm and got this mess.

I do see one reference, further down, for assembly language.  I looked a little closer at the Java references, and one talks about manipulating bytecodes.  Perhaps that is a reference to assembly language...hey, the poll says Asm.  No capitals...is it an acronym?  Wasn't sure what to think, so I searched asm, and got the previously mentioned results.  If assembly language was meant, then it ought have been specified.  I found more references to Oracle than Java when I searched.

I threw in FORTRAN in my prior post as a salute to an oldie-but-goody.  What about Perl, Python, Ruby, and Ruby on Rails?
Just some more examples...

well, I assumed ASM, I don't think I'd call it an acronym... I think it got the name simply from the file extension (*.ASM).


And now, a brief opinion on some programming languages:

HTML:

I swear to god if I hear another person call this a programming language... and NO it is NOT a technicality! it's like calling a cheap reliant a corvette! complete misinformation! I mean if you tell somebody your a "programmer" and they subsequently discover that you really are just a markupper, whose going to look silly then? Huh? I can assure you, it won't be your neighbors dog. or his cat, for that matter.


BASICA:

The IBM Personal Computer Basic 
Version A2.10 Copyright IBM Corp. 1981, 1982, 1983 
60455 Bytes free 

Ok
 

I have to say, my favorite thing about BASICA and GWBASIC (it's younger sibling) is that it's fun to start it on other peoples computers, just to challenge them to get out! "exit" Nope. "quit". Nope. Yes, for some reason the command to quit is "SYSTEM". how intuitive.

QBASIC:

If anybody programs in this- good for them. stick it to Microsoft! "yes, I know you guys have the .NET framework and the windows API and all that, but I prefer to use a 20 year old programming tool that was included on DOS 5 and 6 as a crappy (although effective) substitute for REXX in IBM's PC-DOS. Also I hate compiling programs, so I'll just keep them in BAS format and CHAIN them together into 5 separate modules containing code that is completely unrelated."

My advice for anybody stumbling upon this program, is to quickly (and I can't stress that enough, is to type Alt+F, X. You're safe. And then get...


QuickBasic 4.5

I am still amazed at the people who actually write programs in this language and think that they are financially viable. I mean, sure, they may be viable to do what you intend, but there is no way a company that runs Windows is ever going to invest in a 16-bit DOS executable for mission-critical tasks. On the bright side, what used to cost a goodly sum in the old days, can now be had for free on abandonware sites, because apparently after a software developer stops working on a product for a specified period of time, it becomes free!


QuickBasic PDS 7.1:

Much better. Much Better. 4.5 is childs play compared to QBX. ROCK ON QBX! I love you!

VB-DOS:

whats better then QuickBasic PDS 7.1? a more expensive version with little text windows that capitalize on the success of Windows 3.1 without even having to commit to actually running on it!


Turbo Pascal:

a good language, I just never got into using it seriously *censored* shame too, it's a great language. I think I was put off by it's lack of an exponentiation operator. I mean, it has no exponentiation operator, but it has a IN operator for it's "set" types?


Perl:

a great language, but anybody has to admit that it is definitely the ASCII equivalent of vomit. I mean, it's alright right after it comes out of you, but come back after a few months, and it'll be unrecognizable (not to mention quite putrid). You heard me, Larry Wall.

Visual Basic

I've used Visual Basic version 2 and 6, and have also messed around in the others (VB1 humours me to no end), and I find that although it lacks a lot of what other languages offer, it makes up for it in learning curve. Given, I probably could have learned Microsoft QuickC instead of QuickBasic, and thus moved on to Visual C++ 6.0 and then C#, but then I'd have a high-paying job, a corvette, a hot wife, and three kids, but no time to visit computerhope. I think I'll stick with my Visual Basic.

C++

oh wait, I know C++, sort of. only enough to know I don't want to know the rest. Any language verbose enough to include templates as part of a language definition doesn't garner further attention from me then a theoretical analysis.


C#,Visual Fred, and .NET

I don't think I could loathe anything anymore then I do the .NET framework. I really don't. All I know is that Microsoft has this Vendetta against Sun Microsystems for cancelling their license agreement that let Microsoft develop J++, because they kept adding "Microsoft Only" extensions to it. So now Microsoft is dedicated to creating it's own JVM that it calls the CLR, and then spends the rest of it's time trying to cover it up. It's really great, because just like java, the simplest program's memory requirements skyrocket with the price of gas. Difference being they won't come down, because you also have this memory leak called "garbage collection". Did I mention I hate garbage collection? Reference counting may require programmer attention but it's a *censored* of a lot better to code properly first off then to have your objects sitting idle taking up god knows how much memory until the garbage truck rolls by that week to take out the trash. Of course the irony is that Garbage collection essentially needs reference counting anyway, so why not just delete the object when it is... deleted, rather then wait some arbitrary period of time to delete a bunch of different objects? My theory is  that doing that prevents the creation of new algorithms, like "Stop and Copy" which means the program stops and you need to copy your OS system files back onto your system drive because they got corrupted, or "Mark And sweep", which means that all the objects get deleted at once leaving the allocated memory a hideous fragmented mess. (OK, so I don't have a good wordplay joke for the second one, so sue me).


The closest thing to .NET that I like would have to be P-code, simply because it isn't completely retarded, and actually has benefits.


Wow, that is probably my longest post ever. oh well.

[macdad-]

sorry dias. I meant Favored but that would be kinda stupid so preferred would be more apporpriate. and by the way. spell check for the forums doesnt work on my computer. Whenever i press the button, the window pops up but it doesnt so any of the mistakes. oh well.

Thanks BC for your opinions on the programming languages.

C++ and C: I have to admit that these are great programming languages. Pretty dang powerful compared to Java and VB.

ASM: Kills C++ and C. Very good when you are interfacing with a chip(microcontroller) But i just wish that they could create an IDE for it that has syntax highlighting and all the other goodies.

Java: I despise it, except when im playin runescape. 

Just BASIC: you guys should try this sometime soon. Its like QBASIC execept it runs in Windows. Try it here.

QBASIC: Still good but hard to move around in(switching between windows and stuff)

VB: Better than Just BASIC, and QBASIC since it lets you work with DLLs.

HTML:Yes BC this is not a programming language. But it is a platform for Programming Languages on the web(e.g. Java).

[BC_Programmer]

HTML:Yes BC this is not a programming language. But it is a platform for Programming Languages on the web(e.g. Java).

Well- actually the browser would be the platform, the HTML would just be where it's defined. pretty static, like a config file. <APPLET> tag or something similiar...


switching between Qbasic and windows- why not just run it in a window? Also, heres a tip that might work, I know it works in QBX, but I don't know about straight qbasic, the /h switch, for 43 lines instead of 25. I use a P-75 for my DOS programming (of which I might write a few lines every month or two, so it's fairly far between), and I'm kind of put off it because I can't change the number of lines without the screen going all funny.

Just BASIC: you guys should try this sometime soon. Its like QBASIC execept it runs in Windows. Try it here.

hey, what about freeBASIC? I can't stand to program without classes anymore though- it feels wrong somehow to not implement interfaces. He was planning to add class support to freeBASIC, but I don't know how well that will pan out. I'll definitely check out justBASIC though, I have too much free HD space here, gotta fill it with stuff. over 300GB to fill!

Also if you like working in QBASIC you should try QuickBasic PDS 7.1- I got my copy so long ago, but it's somewhere on that forest of the internet.

VB: Better than Just BASIC, and QBASIC since it lets you work with DLLs.

whaa- are you sure this Just BASIC doesn't support DLL declarations? freeBASIC does, HA HA! (well, with it's SDK) Also, you can CREATE dlls in Visual Basic, it's just a serious pain to intercept the IDE's call to the Linker to cause it to force certain module functions to be exported- but ActiveX DLL's work great for me, once I get past the initial bump of registering them on any client machine.


oh yeah, ASM doesn't really have any IDE's, but a lot of dissassemblers that are available can be used for creating new ASM programs.


Also, we're all clear on the difference between Java and Javascript, right? Java was getting all the hype, and Netscape was working on this scripting language, it was going to be called LiveScript, but they figured it would get more attention if they renamed it to capitalize on the success of Java. Bang, "JavaScript" was born, and to pat themselves on the back they played another round of golf. which is pretty much what they did everyday until Netscape 7 flopped. Anyway, I like Java the language, I just wish they'd actually make it "compile", i mean, they have a JVC compiler, but it doesn't "really" compile it, it just turns it into the java bytecode. java bytecode angers me. the early incarnations of Java VMs were great, they had bugs, but at least they were obscure. Now you get a bloody tray icon whenever a java program starts. good, I need another one of those.




does anybody else notice the longest paragraph is my rant on .NET?

[macdad-]

BC, actually Just BASIC Gold Version(you have to pay for it) does work with DLLs. I'll look into freeBasic, and about Netscape making JavaScript. I wonder if one of the guys working on the project suggested the idea for the name and the logo(the coffee) due to the guy drinking alot of coffee, of course thats just a suggestion on how they may have gotten the name

[Dias de verano]

I once met someone who could assemble by hand; this was back in the days of EDLIN and DEBUG. I have been using Freebasic for a couple of years, with the FBIDE - er - ide. Programming languages are just software apps for turning your concisely expressed instructions into machine code. Whatever (a) floats your boat and (b) gets the job done in a maintainable fashion. I think hobby programmers lean towards (a) whereas people who code for a living may tend towards (b).

[macdad-]

I consider Programming games and apps a hobby. Yet computer programmers now a days get paid a large sum of money so its well worth considered to try it out. 

[Dias de verano]

There are lots of people coding stuff in C++ for $20 an hour.

[BC_Programmer]

There are lots of people coding stuff in C++ for $20 an hour.

that's double what I'm making now. Have you looked at any of the job listing for programming? It seems they list as many acronyms as they can think of. I swear to god I saw "a new, forward thinking company [is] looking for talented individuals with knowledge in C++, Java, Visual Basic, ADO, FORTRAN..."  WHA! since when is a company that uses "FORTRAN" forward thinking? Besides, half the people that apply for those types of jobs wouldn't have those skills anyway, but BS their way in.

[Dias de verano]

The minimum wage where I live (Great Britain) is approximately $11 (US) equivalent. That means you can get that for flipping burgers or mopping lavatories.

I think the notion that computer programmers make a lot of money is perpetuated by people who sell programming courses. Of course a very talented software engineer with a proven track record and skill set can make a comfortable living, but that does not mean that Joe Sixpack can do a 6 week correspondence course in C++ and thereafter start raking it in.

As for Fortran, I love this quote

"The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to constants; instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every appearance, the variable PI can be given that value with a DATA statement and used instead of the longer form of the constant. This also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi change." —Early FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers

It is far from obsolete. If somebody had at least an awareness of it, it might set them apart from the "boil in the bag" type of programmer I alluded to above.

Who uses Fortran?

"Real programmers". Number crunching

Nuclear physics (LANL Los Alamos Natl. Lab., CERN), energy, weapons

Weather forecast

Finite elements (engineering); Navier-Stokes eq.; Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD)

Aircrafts (Boeing); spacecrafts (NASA, JPL Jet Propulsion Lab.)

Natural oil and gas exploration; earthquakes (geophysics)

MOPAC, MNDO (semi-empirical)

Gaussian, Turbomol, Molpro (ab initio)

GROMOS (MD)

SHELX (X-ray structure)

[BC_Programmer]

I never said FORTRAN wasn't a viable language or anything- it just seemed from the context of the ad somewhat out of place. with all the other specifications they laid out, like VB, C++, and so forth- it's a messy language, but it definitely has it's place, I just found it humourous in the context, just as I would have found it humourous to find a programmer for "time critical" tasks, and the language was C#.

[macdad-]

Fortran is now just kinda "swept-under-the-rug" deal. its not used much anymore. but im now glad that im taking Microsoft VB 6 for one of my classes in High School. 

[Dias de verano]

Fortran is now just kinda "swept-under-the-rug" deal. its not used much anymore.

Did you actually read my post? It's used a lot.

[macdad-]

sorry. Fortran was created so far back that i thought it was long gone. but i guess i was wrong. Thanks Dias for sharing the info about Fortran though.